In this episode, we caught up with multiple South African champion Ashleigh Moolman Pasio of the AG Insurance Soudal team. We talked about her QOM Strava record on the famous Rocacorba climb, and the challenge she set herself to get the best women's time below 30 minutes.

Ashleigh will share her advice on how to pace yourself when aiming for your PR because pushing just a little over your limit for half of the climb will ultimately cost you later. The Rocacorba will never attain the status of an Alpe d'Huez, Stelvio, or Tre Cime di Lavaredo, but thanks to a lucky combination of geography, local patronage, and technology, It has already become much more than a footnote in cycling folklore.

The Rocacorba climb outside Girona is a prestigious Strava segment contested by professionals and amateurs. It is a demanding climb known for its challenging terrain and stunning views. The climb has become notable despite never being featured in a grand tour, thanks to the pros who have used it as a test climb. To find out more about why this climb is one of the most contested and prestigious Strava segments, we reached out to Ashleigh Moolman Pascio of the AG Insurance Soudal team and Rocacorba QOM to have her help us unlock Rocacorba's history and why many local pros have made this climb their training ground.

We hope you’ll enjoy this fully packed and insightful episode with Ashleigh Moolman Pascio of AG Insurance - Soudal cycling team

(00:00)Welcome
(05:20) Live From Columbia
(09:31) Rocacorba Cycling, How It All Started
(20:23) Rocacorba
(21:45) A Bucket List Climb, the Pros Test Climb
(29:29) Strava Segment, Mastering the Pacing Strategy
(36:20) When Getting to the Top
38:49) Tips for Descending Rocacorba Safely
(41:16) Training Intervals and Efforts
(48:41) The Benefits of Riding with Local Guides in Girona
(52:08) Rocacorba Strava QOM
(56:25) Ending


ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
The Strava segment is 9.8 kilometers, so just short of 10. I've been the queen of the mountain for many, many years. It's very much a power climb.

SOREN JENSEN
Welcome to the Castelli Podcast, your exclusive access to the iconic brand that has revolutionized how pro riders dress and pushed the boundaries of cycling clothing performance for decades. In each episode, we are joined by people from the world of cycling to learn the best practices for peak performance, how to dress, share riding stories and hear firsthand what new and innovative products are in the works and get a glimpse into Castelli's almost 150 years of history. On today's episode, we talk to Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio of the AG Insurance Soudal team  about one of the most prestigious Strava segments, contested by both professionals and amateurs, the Rocacorba climb outside of Girona and within a stone's throw of the beautiful Costa Brava coast and the Pyrenees. The medieval town has been home to many of the world's professional cyclists for nearly three decades, offering the perfect environment for cyclists looking to hone their form on quiet roads and with fantastic year-round temperatures. It's a place filled with vibrancy and culture, and there is a wealth of great cycling climbs to tackle, almost too many to choose from. Rocacorba is a demanding hill to climb, so getting to the top in a respectable time is the main highlight. Under 45 minutes is considered a good time for non-pros. It is one for those who love to climb. And there is nothing at the top other than two large telecom masts and stunning views on a cloudless day.  During a Castelli media camp early this year, we brought an exclusive group of global cycling journalists to Girona to test some of her new gear and visit the Castelli flagship store downtown Girona. We stayed at the Rocacorba Cycling in Banyoles, a little bit outside of Girona, owned by Ashley and her husband Carl, and only a kilometer away from the iconic Rocacorba climb and a climb I always wanted to feature in Castelli's hashtag Epic Climb Tuesday series on Instagram. So I thought to myself, why not start an epic climb series here in the Castelli podcast where we'll talk to locals and pros to gain all the insider know-how of some of the many legendary climbs and their history. So a few weeks ago, I reached out to Ashleigh while she and her husband were in Colombia for an altitude training camp to have her help me unlock Rocacorba's history and why many local pros have made this climb their training ground. Ashleigh and her husband have lived in Banyoles for a long time and she's been the Rocacorba Queen of the Mountain for many years now.  In 2020, she broke her record and the sub 30-minute mark on the 9.9 km Strava segment. A performance that many of the big world tour names turned themselves inside to achieve. So in today's episode, she'll share her advice on how to pace yourself when going for your personal best. Because if you push just a little over your limit for half of the climb, you'll ultimately pay for it later. That happened to me a few months ago.  We'll discover why this climb is such a favorite for the pros, despite never being featured in a pro race. But before we dive into the episode, let me give you a little bit of background information on this climb. A little over 30 years ago, the only people who knew about the messy tangle of tarmac and dirt road of the summit of Rocacorba were radio-masked engineers and members of the Girona Hang Gliding Club and a few local mountain bikers. The mountain is located 20km north of Girona and reaches 994m above sea level, a monster when on a clear day you can see the Pyrenees 80 km further north and on a little hill near the summit lies the 12th century Santuari de Rocacorba which gives its name to the climb. However, in the past half dozen years, Rocacorba's fame and name have spread far beyond a few religious tourists and bands of gravity-defying sportsmen who in 1989 drove up the dirt road section near the summit and built the first hang gliding ramp. Lance Armstrong was one of the first pro cyclists moving to Girona in the early 2000s.  But he had gone by the time the Rocacorba was fully paved around 2006. And the climb turned into an unofficial test climb for local based riders. There is only one way up and down the Rocacorba. It's a savage dead end that from a cycling point of view only exists to get to the top and back down again. A road to nowhere except hopefully to some sense of your fitness. It will never attain the status of Alpe d'Huez, the Stelvio or Tre Cime di Lavaredo. Still, thanks to a lucky combination of geography and local patronage and technology, Rocacorba has already become much more than a footnote in cycling folklore. Now let's dive into the interview with Ash and don't forget to use the chapter links in the podcast notes to jump between the topics or fast forward to the essence on this interview, the Rocacorba climb details. Ashleigh, thank you for joining me today live from Colombia.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
That's fine. All good, the rest stays today.

SOREN JENSEN
It also seems a little chilly there, isn't it? Or it's just because of the skies and it looks a little foggy.  I don't know if it's just that.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, so as I mentioned, we're at 2,580 or 2,600 meters now. So, I mean, I'm being cautious as a cyclist rather to stay, you know, be sure that I'm 100% warm because I know it's a rest day and I want to be sure I don't compromise. My immune system is probably compromised.  It's not cold, it's just a little bit fresh and a little bit foggy, but by in about two hours time, it will be warm.

SOREN JENSEN
Also because it's only like quarter past 8 in the morning.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Exactly and if we drive down then it's really warm and quite humid so it's been mostly in the range of about 25 degrees each day and that's it's perfect temperature.

SOREN JENSEN
And of course you and Carl you both speak Spanish so there it's is it difficult to communicate or also coming as maybe non Spanish speaker I mean only with English is that easy to communicate with people?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, there aren't a lot. If you're going to restaurants and stuff, which I highly recommend, then you have to speak Spanish, or at least try. I mean, a lot of like, you can get away obviously with some Google translation on the menu, or sometimes you go to places where the menu is also in English, so they do have a lot of American tourism here. Also, a lot of Dutch and European people do come here. So they're not closed to helping you. They're very helpful. So if you can't speak good Spanish, it's not a big problem, but it does mean you'll have to make some effort to try and communicate or to point at things, or you might have to use Google Translate. For us, it's actually been quite interesting because we live in Girona where it's Catalan, and now we're in a place where they speak Spanish. And it is, some words are different. Like they do use some of their own words. Like they don't, for example, use the word amigo as friend. They use another word someone told me and I have now completely forgotten it. But you'll get by easily because the people are just so helpful. So it's not like some parts of the world you don't speak the language, they're not interested to help you. Here they'll always help you. Open arms. Yeah, exactly.

SOREN JENSEN
Nice. I mean, it's been, like I said, on my bucket list for quite some time, like years, and I just need to check it out for sure, especially after hearing all this. I would look up again on your Strava profile where you guys are, and also look a little bit more closely.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, I think we actually have in mind now to consider, you know, in the period of like December, January, when it's bad weather in Europe and people are looking to get away, to get a group of people together and to come out together. Because I think that's a nice way to do it. Of course, you can do it. I would always recommend if you were to come, that you come with your wife or with someone to share the experience with, because it's really nice to experience the local culture, to go to the restaurants. For example, the town squares are always full of energy. Like on Sunday night, we went into the town of Retiro and the town square, there were thousands. And it was local people.  It was all local people. It was Palm Sunday and they are religious, but you need to share that with someone where you can go and sit at the cafe and really enjoy the culture.

SOREN JENSEN
Thanks for all these great insider tips and recommendations. Okay, Ashleigh, let's get started. I don't want to take too much of your time here today. But first of all, when we visit the Rocacorba Cycling doing a Castelli media camp earlier this year, it was my first time there. I've only seen your place on GCN channel and other websites and stuff, and your guys' place is really amazing. It's a proper cycling heaven, the way that you have the whole facility going, also for your guests taking care of everything basically, and then also of course all the area around it. But since this podcast is about the Rocacorba climb, I would like to start with having you maybe telling us a little bit about your Rocacorba cycling business. I'm guessing this is a nod to the climb with the name of course, and how you guys ended up in Banyoles and Rocacorba, if you can kind of do that as a short version.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, I'll try. When I first started my career in Europe, Carl and I actually went to Italy because he has Italian heritage, he has an Italian passport, I have an Italian passport, so of course you know we wanted to go and experience the culture there. And we spent about two years in northern Italy in the Lago Maggiore sort of region, just south of Milan. And we really, really loved Italy and the culture and the language and the people and the food, but we never managed to really integrate into the community there. And so we just kind of felt we needed to find a place where we could settle and feel normal, you know, not like a tourist every day. And so that's when we started looking further to find somewhere else in Europe to settle. And I came across, you know, Girona, of course, because there were a lot of expats living there, a lot of South Africans, a lot of Americans. And so I thought, well, maybe this is the place to go. Carl was quite hesitant, you know, the normal Italian sort of style where they kind of get accustomed, they like to stay in their comfort zone. So I really had to convince him a lot. And one of the things that Carl said to me is, I need to go somewhere where there is water, you know, because in that Lago Maggiore area, and he grew up at the water, you know, he's like, I'm not going to Girona because there's no water. So that's when I started looking a little bit outside of Girona and I came across Banoles with the lake. I managed to convince Carl to give it a try. So when we moved to the area, we immediately settled in the Banyoles region close to the lake. We have never lived in Girona.  And then when I first arrived there, I like to do my intervals on a climb. I like to find a place where I'm quite boring in that way. I like to use the same place for my intervals because I use the surroundings as also a way of measuring my progress. Sometimes our power meters don't work very well. Sometimes if you go to the same place and you do your intervals, you also start to see points on the climb that you reach and that's also a measure of progress and I also just feel safer to stay in certain zones. And so I was looking immediately for a place where I could do my intervals and of course Rocacorba was the first place that I went to to start doing my intervals. And so our very first arrival in the area, Rocacorba immediately became a very significant part of my life. I would use it at least once but sometimes even twice a week for doing my intervals. I very quickly also became the queen of the mountain.

SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, and we're going to get into that later in the episode.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
And then after living in the area, so we moved to the area in 2012. And after living there for a couple of years and absolutely loving the culture, the people, we integrated into the community much easier. In Girona, the people were very welcoming, although they're super patriotic and passionate about their heritage, they're also very happy to share it with other people. And a lot of them speak English, which also made it a bit easier to integrate. And so we settled very easily and very quickly in the area. But then, you know, as we were getting older, I got into cycling a bit later in life. I'd already studied, so I was in my middle 20s when I came over to Europe. And as we were getting more and more into our 30s, Carl and I would have conversations about what's next. When my career's over, are we gonna go back to South Africa?  But if we go back to South Africa, yeah, we have engineering degrees, but we haven't worked in the industry, so what's next? And so we'd ride on our training rides and we noticed these beautiful masias or farm buildings, stone farm buildings. And both Carl and I come also from a background where our parents or families have been involved in hospitality, whether that's bed and breakfast or restaurants. So it's in our blood, and so we thought, well, maybe that's the next thing. We need to find one of these big farmhouses and we need to share this amazing region for cycling with the rest of the world. And so that's how it all started. And it was in 2017 that we started actively looking for a property. And we so happened to reach out to an estate agent to see a different property. And when we met with her, she immediately said, I'm going to take you to the property you asked to see, but I have another one that's just come on the market. It isn't even listed yet, and I need to take you there first. And she took us to Can Campolier. So that's the historical name, the house of Campolier, the family name is Campolier. And I walked through the arch into the courtyard, and immediately, I just knew it. I could just, it didn't, it wasn't in the condition it is right now today, the courtyard was totally overgrown, a lot of the stones were covered by grass, the pond was totally overgrown with reeds, but I just walked in there and I got the feeling of community, that this is a hub, this is where people can come together and  we can build community. And that's something that's always been really important to me, is sharing my career to motivate others and to build a community. And so immediately I knew it and it didn't matter what other properties we saw because I'd already made up my mind. So yeah, that's not a very short version but I tried to keep it as short as possible.

SOREN JENSEN
And also I remember you telling me when then you guys, you saw the place and you fell in love with it, you were not the only couple bidding for that location, right?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, and okay, I forgot to mention, another reason why it was the most perfect property was because of its location. It's literally based at the bottom of the Rocacorba climb. So you literally roll down our driveway and you hit the road that leads towards Rocacorba.  And you know, Rocacorba is such a big part of my life. You know, it was part of my progress and it's the way I measured my progress in Europe. I was the queen of the mountains, so it just made so much sense to find a property that was in this location. But as you said, it was a very competitive process to buy the property.  We are the first non-Campolier owners, so it had been in the Campolier family for hundreds of years, and it had been left to the eldest son. He never married, he never had a family, so he was just living there with his parents. And he never had a passion for the property because there is also farmland, there's multiple buildings and the way to make that property sustainable because it's so big was to start a business and he just never had that foresight or that energy. So as soon as his parents died, he just wanted to get rid of it. So of course it was selling for a good price and it's quite a prominent property. So we actually were, we are told that Shakira and Pique were our competition, were one of our competition, as well as I think a Dutch couple who had a similar idea to create a cycling business. So yeah, it was a very, very competitive process and quite stressful. And I had really attached myself to the property like emotionally. So I really, it's that's where my cycling spirit, you know, my fighting spirit came in. I was going to, I was going to nudge everyone out the way to make sure that I got across the finish line first. And yeah, we were really happy when we finally secured the property.

SOREN JENSEN
Your husband, Carl, told me that you already had in your mind the vision and the business plan of the future and the Rocacorba Cycling later. And I think that was also what was presented then to the owner.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
I think the big reason why we managed to win over the owner, you know, the Campolier, the original owner of the building, was that we always spoke about community and how important that was to us. And we made a promise to him basically from the very beginning that we would never make it exclusive. And I think that's what really, really stood out to him.  Because it is, it's the most prominent farm in the Banyoles area. It's on a little hill, it looks over the whole city. And we said from the beginning that we would make it accessible not only to the rest of the world, but to the locals as well. And that I think is what managed to edge us ahead of the rest.

SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, because your job is to be a professional cyclist on the very, very top level. And so with Carl also running the business and coordinating things, you have a lot of locals, people working at the facility, coordinating things. You have the kitchen, you have the chef, you have guides for bike tour, I mean everything, you name it. We came there with Castelli, as you know, with a big group of journalists and everyone just felt home. Like what you said, that connection. I had then one extra night after the rest of the group left and I was having dinner at the same table with another group of your guests there that evening. There was just something normal that would never happen, you know, in another location or hotel that they would put two groups of people that never met before on the same table. And we sat down and we had one or two good bottles of red wine, fantastic food made by Brian. And we sat there till like almost midnight. I was feeling bad for Brian and Jess.  That was just a thing we're just waiting to get home. But it was part of the experience and everyone just had that feeling. I mean, the feedback I had from the journalists afterwards was so positive. So that was so good to hear. And that's also what that made me feel like, hey, I came home, told my wife about it, and she was like, oh, we should go. I was like, yeah, I want to bring you. And it was beautiful. It was really nice. 

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it's the property, you know, I think the farm vibe. And that's something we always wanted to do justice because in the farm kitchen, the original farm kitchen, there's a wood fire bread oven. And we were told by the family that that bread oven was actually a communal bread oven, you know, many years ago. So people from the community could come and bake their bread in the oven. And so that again, was just a tradition that we wanted to carry forward into the future, you know. So again, like I think it's just the property as well. It just creates this vibe. And of course, Colin and my character, we're very open, we're very social people. So we always just want to make people feel at home, feel comfortable. Of course, if someone comes and they like their privacy, then we always respect that. But in general, very quickly, people start to chat, talk about their rides, talk about their experience, where they went on the coast for lunch. And so it just is a great community feeling. 

SOREN JENSEN
Definitely. I can confirm that. Very nice. So Ashleigh, getting back to Rocacorba, while Nice is famous for the Col de la Madone and Lucca, the Monte Serra, and in the Girona area, it's the Rocacorba. Rocacorba has been used by some of the world's best cyclists as a test climb, as you also mentioned, to do your own testing, but also your efforts on to see what sort of shape they're in. I remember in 2012, the year that Ryder Hesjedal won the Giro, I was there in Girona when we were sponsoring the Garmin Barracuda team back then.  And he was telling me about both him and then Martin were polishing off his shape and doing his last test there on the Rocacorba before going to the Giro. And I know for a professional cyclist, it's all about getting a sub 30 minutes. And for a good amateur, I think we're talking about 40 minutes plus. Can you tell me a little bit more about why Rocacorba has become a notable climb despite never being featured in a grand tour?  Because all the other famous climbs that we know of, they have all been featured like the Alpe d'Huez, the Galibier or the Pyrenees or the Stelvio. All these other famous climbs have all been featured in either the Vuelta, the Giro or the Tour. What made do you think Rocacorba that special and that like bucket list climb for professionals living in the area but also cyclists coming to Girona area?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
I definitely think it was the pros that made it the climb that it is today and Ryder Hesjedal is probably one of the originals really who made it that iconic climb that everyone needs to test themselves up. You know, I think Ryder and David Miller, I would say. In this case, I don't think Lance Armstrong was that involved or important in terms of  the Rocacorba climb because it was a bit before his time. Rocacorba was only paved not so many years ago, to be honest. So in the time of, for example, Lance Armstrong, it wasn't completely paved all the way to the top.  But yes, I'd say Ryder Hesjedal is one of those cyclists who I think used Rocacorba a lot in his preparation. David Miller, I think Dan Martin, as you mentioned, these are the kind of riders that really sort of formed the name of Rocacorba. And I think the reason why is because it really is, I would say, the toughest climb in the area. So, you know, it's distant. It's not as long as, for example, Mare de Déu del Mont, which is the Mount Roof God climb. It's literally the fastest. It's 18 kilometers, but it's very irregular, you know, so it's not a very good time to use as a test. Whereas Rocacorba, okay, the first part is quite tame, you know, it's not super steep, but as soon as you've gone over the first three kilometers, you really hit the second part of the climb, which is unrelent, it's relentless, is the word I'm trying to say actually. So it just never stops, you have to keep on the pedal, and when you get to the top, the last part is really steep, and you just, if you haven't timed it correctly, you're totally empty. So it's a tactical climb, you know, you have to pace yourself well to get a good time up there, and it's really a good challenge. So it quickly formed its name as the climb, the test climb, as you said. So like Ryder Hesjedal did his final test before the Giro, a lot of riders would do their test there  before going to the Tour de France. And so that's how it formed its name. And to this day, you know, there's sometimes a bit of a mixed conception about Rocacorba because often people will go, I don't understand why Rocacorba is so famous because it's quite a boring climb. There's nothing, there's no view, you're just suffering all the time up the climb. So why is it so important? Why is it so special? And the reason why it's so important is because it's that challenge. It's to challenge yourself, to see what time you can set. There is a very, very prestigious leaderboard.  It's a good way to measure up against the pros or to measure up against other people in your age group. I always say to people when they say that, why is it so special? I say, okay, it's the challenge, firstly, but secondly, it's a climb that keeps it secret till the very end. You have to go all the way to the top. You have to suffer all the way to the top to enjoy the view, because when you get to the top, the view opens up, you know? You can look out over to the coast, to Girona. You can see the whole area, and it is a really beautiful view.  Not only that, it also has a very iconic sort of feature on it, which unfortunately, not many people see when they're climbing the road version of Rocacorba. It's named after a rock outcrop because Rocacorba actually means rock outcrop.  And there's quite a prominent rock outcrop that actually looks like a ship. And there's a monastery on top of this rock outcrop. So the only way you really see that very clearly is from the other side, so from the Girona side. And if you climb the gravel part of the climb, which is just as tough as the road part. So also something I recommend people to do,  because it's a great challenge. That's when you really see the iconic rock outcrop of Rocacorba.  And we're quite lucky at Rocacorba Cycling, because we have access, or we work with Rocacorba Clothing. It's not our brand, it's a local guy who does clothing. He has keys to this sanctuary. And so sometimes, you know, it's really great to make a special occasion. Yeah, to go up to the sanctuary and to really see what Rocacorba is all about, what it's named after, and to see the sunset from up there. It's always really beautiful.

SOREN JENSEN
That'll be amazing to do one day. I will love that.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
The most important thing is the challenge. You know, it's the challenge, and you have to wait till the very end to really experience the view.

SOREN JENSEN
I would love to do that next time because I've done it by bike two times. First time there was 2012, doing some shootings with Ryder Hesjedal, and in 2015-16 still with the Garmin Shop team. I was there with David Miller, Dan Martin and Jack Bauer, I remember. But I was then driving the car while we were doing some photoshootings there. And then last time was there in February, early March when we came to visit you guys.  But I've always gotten there to the big antennas there on the paved road. So I would love to take the dirt road next time. That would be a bit of an experience.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, and we really need to find the time to make a race that goes up proper Rocacorba because it is that one iconic climb that has not yet featured in a race. And I'm not 100% sure, possibly it's a lot of people say to me it's because of the parking, you know, it's not easy for all the buses or, but I mean it's not unknown for the races.

SOREN JENSEN
This is what I was about to say, it's not unknown. Look at Zoncolan.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, exactly. So, I think I need to make it my mission to have a race on the top of Rocacorba because great opportunity to also create a bit like the Flanders or like the Strade Bianche where you can create something really nice for the fans as well because it would be really easy to do some kind of a race that finishes on the top for the amateurs as well or just a hill climb and you could have two versions of the hill climb.  You could have a gravel hill climb and you could have a road hill climb. So yeah.

SOREN JENSEN
That's a very good idea. Yeah.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
It's on my to-do list.

SOREN JENSEN
I like that. And I'm pretty sure if it's on your to-do list and with all your passion and engagement and everything, it will happen one day. I'm pretty sure about that.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, it's a long to-do list, so it takes time to tick all the boxes, but yeah, I always get there eventually.

SOREN JENSEN
So talk about the climb itself. I don't know if this is a myth, but I've heard, and it's not just the last few years but 12 years ago when I came there the first time that the locals, they use their age plus 10 as a time to aim for when climbing the full length. Is it 10 kilometers or is it 13.8 because I kind of have these two segments that always pops up.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
So the Strava segment is 9.8 kilometers so just short of 10 but the official climb is supposed to be 13.8, but it really starts from like there's a factory on the corner and so it's maybe 2-3% for the first three kilometers. So that's why we don't usually use the full climb as the start segment.

SOREN JENSEN
Okay. So coming back to that myth, is that something you heard before? Like the locals talk about, I'm thinking they're probably not chewing the handlebars when they're riding up. It's more just like taking it easy, but that 8 plus 10, is that a good...

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
It's a really good target, exactly. So whenever we have guests who want to set a good time of Rocacorba, we use that myth or that theory that you're age plus 10, and if you get anything less than that, then you've really gone very well.

SOREN JENSEN
I need to go back and look at mine here from last time. So again, just to get this right, so the Strava segment, if I remember right, so the clock starts ticking or the Strava segment starts when you cross that low stone bridge, is that where the road turns left up into the trees? Is that the one?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
That's exactly where it stops.

SOREN JENSEN
Okay, because again, then also pacing yourself because if you have to also go for the Queen of the Mountain or the KOM, it's kind of a difficult one. Like you said, what happened to me last time, I was just pushing a little bit too hard in the beginning, then it kind of flattens out again and then it pops up again and then you had a little bit of small descent and then you got the last part where it just completely exploded, I remember the last bit coming up to the big antenna. Yeah. Can you kind of give us a quick run through of how people should pace themselves when doing this climb?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, that's the big trick is pacing and if I'm totally honest, I still don't think I've gotten it 100% right. So that's why it keeps enticing me to come back, you know, because I've been the queen of the mountain for many, many years and no one's close to my time when it comes to female riders. So a lot of people sort of say to me, why do you bother to keep trying? And it's because of this very, you know, pacing strategy that I feel I could always do it a little bit better. Because as you say, the first part of the climb as you cross over that bridge into the trees, it's very much a power climb for the first three kilometers. The gradient is super steep, you're feeling good, you're fresh, you've just come from your warm-up. So, it's very easy to get overexcited in the bottom part of the climb. And then, you hit your first little descent, usually you know, around, in my case, around between eight and nine minutes, maybe for some a little bit longer depending on what your age is. And then after that first descent, that's when it really kicks up and it is quite, you know, steep all the way, you know, there isn't very much respite except for, as you mentioned, there's one more little downhill section where there's a big field and then you have the last 1.8 Ks. You see the first antenna at this little downhill section and then you have 1.8 Ks and you need to get to the next antennas. This to me is the crucial point, the last 1.8 Ks. You really want to try and get your pacing right in the first part. Really stay more at your threshold. Don't be tempted to go over threshold because it's often tempting to go more into that anaerobic power zone where you're over your threshold.  In the first 10 minutes, you really need to try and stay at your threshold, no more. Then you do also need to kind of use that little descent after the first three kilometers or 10 minutes, use that a little bit for recovery. Don't freewheel, of course, try to keep the power going, but use free speed in this moment to try and catch your breath. Take a good drink from your bottle or maybe even a gel is quite good at this point. So that when you hit the more difficult part of the climb, you have something. And then I would only say to start kind of going more into over threshold in the steeper part. But again, not to go too deep, not to go into the total red zone where you can't come out because on that last little descent section with before you hit the last 1.8k again, use that for a bit of recovery. You know, spin the legs out a little bit. Don't, you know, push a heavy gear on this section.  Take another drink because when you hit the one, the last 1.8k, that's when you really want to give it everything. And especially as a climber like myself, in that last 1.8k, my strength is really to climb out of the saddle. So the important thing for me is to try and keep enough in the legs to be able to really get out of the saddle. Not all the way of course, but to use the steepest parts to get out of the saddle and to really give all my power. And I still to this day haven't quite got that right. Because usually when I get to that last 1.8 kilometers, I don't feel fresh enough to really use my out-of-the-saddle climbing strength. Usually, yes, I get out of the saddle for a  few seconds here and there, but I'm feeling too fatigued to really use that full potential. I need to get back there this year again and give it another go.

SOREN JENSEN
No, these are some really good recommendations. I'm just kind of seeing the images when I did it two months ago and especially that little bit of descent before it really ramps up the last 1.8 kilometers is what I was just trying to just give it full gas on that descent because I was just thinking, okay, I need to get some fast speed here and then go up there. And that was the first mistake. And then the second mistake was probably also I kept looking at the antenna up on the top and I just thought it was getting closer and closer, but then I was looking on the map on my device and I could just see that then the road was kind of just going around the top, around the antenna. So it just became steeper and steeper there. So I think there definitely for next time I need to learn from my lesson here, listen to what you're saying and then yeah, just work on this both physically but also mentally next time for my next run up there. No, it was definitely a challenging climb for sure.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Something else which is really, really important if you're going for your Strava attempt at the climb, you really have to and now this is hard because you're really empty, there's a line on the road near, you know, at the top and that's actually the end of the Strava segment. But it's a little bit tricky because there's like a platform, you know, just above this line where the antennas are and if you, because I've made this mistake before. You cross that line and you think you're done and you try to roll onto the platform because it's a space where you can relax.  But on Strava, it sees that platform as below the line. I've had a huge issue before where I gave it a massive effort. I broke the 30-minute mark and I went and I recovered in this zone. And when I came back and I looked at my Strava time, it only finished my time when I crossed the line again to go down. So I was so distraught, because I didn't get the segment and I had to do it again. So the secret is you really need to keep going to the fence.

SOREN JENSEN
All the way up to the gate.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
To the gate, touch the gate. And then you know, okay, I will have my Strava segment correct.

SOREN JENSEN
I'm sure the person who created that segment did it on purpose to just eliminate a few people at least at first run. So yeah, no, that happened before. I rode all the way up to the gate because I kind of had that in the back of my head. I mean, I don't even know where this segment ends.  So yeah, also myself rode all the way up to the gate, which is only like five meters long.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
But when you're empty, it's a long five meters.

SOREN JENSEN Oh yeah, no, completely. True. So when you get to the top of Rocacorba, there are stunning views of course, but are there other recommended ways for cyclists to celebrate their accomplishments and enjoy the surrounding scenery? Things you can recommend? Also, a time of the day, like late afternoon, just to soak in the sunset maybe? I don't know.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
I would say it's always great to hit, there's a platform where paragliders jump off. And this is also quite an iconic feature on the climb. So I think it's always good to take a photo at this platform. A lot of people will sort of sit with their legs, you know, over the platform, and like kind of look out at the view. This is quite a good Instagram photo. I mean, my husband, Carl, has been totally crazy, and there are other people that have done this before, but I don't recommend this for anyone else. He's actually sort of like hung off on the, it's possible to climb down the platform and to look like you hanging onto it, but I don't recommend this. Because it's way too big. But yeah, I always recommend you need to go to this platform, really soak up the views, obviously take a photo. It's never official until you've got a photo, whether that's to post on Stock or to post on Instagram. You always want that memory, of course. And then, yeah, just to take a few minutes to really recover, soak it all up before you go down because the descent is actually really, really technical and really tricky. You want to be properly recovered before you start taking the descent down. If you've done an effort, if you've done the climb for the reason most people do it, to set your best time, then this is the way I'd say. I'd recommend rather to do it earlier in the day because in Spain, it's very well known for the hottest time of the day in Spain, when Girona, to be after 3, between 3 and 6 in the day. That I'd say is the hottest time of the day, so I'd recommend to do it earlier in the day so that it's not too hot, but you need to enjoy the effort by soaking it up, checking out the views, getting your photo and recovering before you do the descent. If you want to experience the sunset, then I'd say the best way is actually to go on your gravel bike and then to have something a bit more organized as an event so that you can really stay up at the sanctuary, at the big rock outcrop, enjoy some drinks, and then have a car trip back down so that you don't have to worry.

SOREN JENSEN
About riding a little bit. Yeah, exactly. No, because what you're saying is, and I found out that myself, I mean, even now after I've been racing a few years pro myself and then been living in the Tallinn Dolomites for 18 years outside our doorstep here. We ride straight up in the mountains. But I did find, like you said, the descent at some points technical, both due to the corners, but also that you have a lot of cracks in the tarmac.  What safety precautions should cyclists know when descending Rocacorba after completing the climb? Apart from just being precautious about the speed, but are there any other things that people should really be aware of? Because in some places when it's steep, especially you are accelerating, I mean, the bike is going fast.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, it really is a tricky descent and not only is it technical in its sort of layout with the switchbacks, it's also the surface is quite bad. You know, it's something that we're trying to fight for them to redo the surface so that it's better. So you really do have to descend cautiously. If you're descending it for the first time, I never recommend trying to do any, you know, Strava descent segment attempts on Rocacorba because it can go very wrong.  So I always recommend to take it slow. I know the descent very, very well now. So you know, for me, it's easier to go a bit faster if I want. But for everyone else, if you haven't done it before, really just take it easy. It's not worth it to crash, especially after doing a hard effort up the climb. It's just really important to always watch the road surface because there are places where there are quite really bad cracks in the road. You really don't want your wheel to go into those cracks. Then there are switchbacks that if you come with too much speed, you're just not going to make it around the corner. So always enter into the switchbacks, you know, more cautiously, braking, you know, well before the switchback so that you can respond. And then the bottom part, once you've, you know, the part that we spoke about the last three kilometers, or the first three kilometers, and in the case of the descent, the last three kilometers, there the road surface is really good. They've redone it. It's smooth. If you want to feel out the descent and go with more speed, then I'd only recommend to do it in this part of the track.

SOREN JENSEN
Just let the bike roll, coming out there of the woods and out in the open fields thereafter.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Exactly.

SOREN JENSEN
Okay, no, that's good because I was a bit surprised, to be honest, this time, but maybe also because I was a little bit too cocky and I had to ride back to Italy. That was, like you said, in one of the switchbacks that came down a little bit too fast. But luckily, I stayed on the bike. What kind of intervals, if you can leak a little bit, what kind of intervals or efforts would you do on the climb mostly?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
I have to be honest, it's mostly the first part of the climb that I use for intervals because generally speaking, I'm talking about anything between 4 minutes and 10 minutes is what I use the first part of the climb for. If I have, there are occasions where of course I have longer efforts, so maybe a sub-threshold climb and then I'll get almost to the top or sometimes to the top. But like I said, if you look at my heat map on Strava, it's really the first three kilometers  of the climb that I use the most. I know every corner, every crack in the road of the first three kilometers. But then, you know, having said that, of course I've climbed the climb many, many times as well, all the way to the top. So yeah, it's mostly anything from 4 minutes to 10 minutes that I do on Rocacorba. And then of course, if it's something longer, then sometimes I might even ride the first part easy and do that first little descent. And then if it's like a 20 minute effort or a 15 minute effort, then I use the second part of the climb so that I know I don't have that descent, which will obviously affect the general, the overall effort.

SOREN JENSEN
And also being world famous and riding an iconic climb that every tourist have to take off their debaculus when they visit the Girona area. All the people that you run into on the roads, a lot of them that coming up for a chat, it's difficult sometimes that even just to do your thing, I'm not saying in a crowded area, but you know, they could be crowded especially in summertime on the Rocacorba if you have to do some of your efforts and stuff. Or how are people approaching you when you're out riding?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
I mean, generally speaking, it's very easy for people to recognize when you're doing an effort. So I don't ever feel that I'm disrupted in my efforts. Usually it's quite nice actually, because if you ride past a group or a couple of people who are doing the climb and you ride past them while you're doing an effort, then they're usually very encouraging, you know? So they'll shout encouragement, go Ashleigh, go, or you know, something like that, which is actually quite nice. It gives you a bit of extra energy to give it your best.  And then yeah, of course, you know, at the top, of course it's really nice if you bump into someone at the top and they'd like a photo or they want to ask some questions, then I'm always happy to oblige and to chat and answer people's questions or take a photo. That's the nature of professional cycling. We're accessible to our fans and I think it's important that we make the effort for our fans because that's essentially what makes the sport what it is, right? We need the fans to watch and to be interested in the sport. So I've never felt disrupted by – I actually have only once had someone sit on my wheel, to be honest, in an interval and he didn't last all that long. But sometimes pros talk about this being really, really annoying if someone tries to sit in your wheel. But as long as they're respecting your space, again, for me. There has definitely been a big change since the Tour de France fam Avec Swift in terms of our fame or recognizability in the general public. So I've definitely seen a massive change since then, since women's cycling is really so much more available on the TV and of course with the tour. So yeah, of course, more and more people recognize us nowadays out on the roads, but generally speaking, fans are respectful and they don't disrupt what you're doing.

SOREN JENSEN
That's good. The thing about cycling is that when we all get into a cycling gear and we're out there on the roads, it kind of, you reset all levels of society. We're all on the same level. We can all chat to each other. And like what you're saying, you're in Colombia, you might have somebody riding up next to you, you might not speak fluently the language, but somehow you always manage to communicate. And, you know, everyone just feels part of something bigger, you know, that everything is connected.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, exactly. And that actually was essentially the vision for Rocacorba Cycling, my cycling tourism business is that, you know, I come from an engineering background. So I have a problem-solving mentality, a strategic mentality that's ingrained in me. And so when I first entered into professional cycling, that was one of the biggest frustrations. Firstly, obviously, when I first entered in 2010, the exposure for women's cycling was really bad.  So that was the first frustration, was to fight for equality and for equal opportunity for women. But not only that, it's throughout the industry that I feel that there is a lot of, it's very disconnected. Cycling is such an accessible sport. As you say, when we're on our bikes together and we ride together, there's this energy and connection that brings everyone to the same level.  But somehow, the different parts of the industry aren't really connected well in this way. So you have professional sport that exists quite independently from cycling tourism, which exists quite independently from the cycling brands. I felt like Rocacorba Cycling, the property speaks to community, it speaks to bringing things together. And so I felt like this was my challenge, was to start a business where I could try and connect the dots. And so that's where throughout my career, I've always tried my best to engage the partners that are involved in my professional team. Because cycling tourism is the place where industry brands can have access to the consumer. And that's, of course, brand exposure through our professional teams is important for the brands, but I think a connection to the consumer is even more important.  And especially in this day and age where marketing is so, there's so much out there, there's so many advertisements. I think trying to create that more personal connection to the consumer is really important for the brands. And so, that's always been the vision of Rocacorba cycling, is that the rental bike fleet would speak to the bike that I ride as a pro, and that there'd be accessibility to the brands that I ride as a pro, and where I can engage with the cycling tourism, the cycling tourists as well, to really share my experience of the brands and why I choose to ride Castelli also. So, yeah, for sure it has played a big part in connecting the dots, but there's still a long way to go in making sure that the different parts of the industry see the same vision  that I do. Sometimes that's a little bit frustrating, but yeah, that's the vision of Rocacorba Cycling.

SOREN JENSEN
Shapo, for everything you have done and achieved so far, I think you're probably, if not the number one, but on that top, cycling's best ambassadors of the cycling world that is out there today, you know, really, and everything both for women's cycling, both the cycling in general and the community and everything, you know, big chapeau, really, for everything you have done. But also then with Rocacorba, because I remember when we came there, you also had a big fleet of specialized bikes that people can rent, because there were people from South Africa, there were people from the States, all over Europe coming to your place. But also one of the things that I really enjoyed was that you also have the guides, you know, the bike guides that take your guests out on different rides depending on the level. Do you want to go to the coast and just want to go and hit some of the climbs in the area? Are there any benefits of riding with one of your guides?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, so we really prioritize sourcing local guides as much as we can. So at the moment, we have Albert, who's the head of our cycling department. So he's the guy you always see, the friendly face in the cycling department answering all your questions, but he also guides. And then we have another really good guide whose name is Guilherme. And they're really unique because they're locals. And that's what we really try our best to do is to source local guides because they just have extra knowledge that nobody else can have. So they can answer all your questions from maybe the history of the area or they know all the best stops, the local restaurants or cafes. There's a lot of cycling cafes nowadays, which are all over Instagram, so they're easy to source. But sometimes, especially when you're going on the quieter roads into the mountains, or if you're going towards the coast, it's really, really great to have a local guide, because they know all the shortcuts, all the quiet roads. There are still occasions, for example, where I've ridden with Albert, where he still shows me roads that I don't know about. And I've lived in the area since 2012. You would think I know them all, but there are just so many option and sometimes the smallest, quietest road that you think, why is this even paved?  Like why? Does anyone ever use it?

SOREN JENSEN
That happened to me a few times. I thought about that.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah. So that's what I'd say is the real benefit of using a guide is that they know all the secret roads that aren't on Strava, that people aren't riding on a day-to-day basis, they know the best stops, they can provide a lot of insight into the area, the history, answer the questions, talk about the local legends, all that type of thing. And yeah, it's just also to be able to ride with peace of mind that you don't have to look at your Garmin or your Wahoo, you don't need to be focused on following directions or if you're going to miss a turn, you can really just relax, soak up the environment because that is again, you know, that's what makes Girona so unique is that it's so quiet the roads that you don't even have to worry about traffic and stuff like that. So when you're on the bike, you can really just enjoy being on the bike. And if you then have to be looking at a map all the time, it's kind of taking away from that experience of completely immersing yourself.

SOREN JENSEN
Yeah. Or if you have a mechanical, I remember also with Albert, I think there was a group of your guests also had a mechanical, one of the rides. I mean, he was around and he could help us straight away. He gave us also with a big group of journalists indications of what to look out for because I think we had that big strike around the highway with the trucks. We were there and he would also give us input of detours to do if we would end up in traffic. And then you come back and then the first thing Albert, he does is like he just takes your bike downstairs, give them a quick clean up and make them sure that they're ready for the next day. It was fantastic. It was great. It was really very enjoyable for everyone. So last question, and that is something we touched on many times. We just said the sub 30. What is your best time on the Rocacorba, but since you're the queen of the mountain, and have been that since many years already, but I know that you broke the record, was that in 2020 coming out of lockdown?

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, so for many years, my time was around 34 minutes. And then after the lockdown, I was training on the indoor trainer from a room in our building where I could see the towers from the window. It would be that constant lure or that challenge about rock-a-corba and my QOM. The first day we could ride outdoors, I immediately set out to set a new record on the Rocacorba  climb. On that day, I think, and that's the one that's currently up on Strava at the moment. I think it's just over 30 minutes. But I have broken the 30-minute mark on 29.50, I think is what my time is or something like that, 29.40, 29.50. However, for some reason, it shows on my Strava as my PR, but it's not the QOM at the moment. So I actually need to – I keep saying to myself I need to get in touch with Strava to understand why they've taken that one down, because it was up. I don't know if it's got to do with the fact that I've put my power data, it's not free for everyone to see at the moment. I don't know if that's part of the reason. I need to look into it, because I was really proud of that effort to break the 30-minute mark as a female rider. It was really a big effort and something I'm proud of. So, yeah, I need to put it back up there so that it's there to be seen. And now, I mean, I keep talking about, oh, it would be so cool to break the top 10 in the men,  but that's a really, really competitive field, you know, and to break into the top 10, I think it's now talking about top 29 or even sub 28 minutes. I'm not sure if I have that in me, but maybe I need to give it one last go.

SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, I see all the way down to, I think it's the 34th position here. Yeah, that's the last one who just got on about one second, the 30 minutes in total, both men and women.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
After the COVID pandemic, when I said that 30-minute mark was sub 30/29.50, I was in the top 15 overall.

SOREN JENSEN
Oh yeah, because now we have the top 15 now, you need to beat Tejay van Garderen and his time is 28.33 seconds. Now it's crazy. I mean, if you look at the top 15 here, most of them are professional cyclists. I also heard that a lot of pros living in the Girona area, they don't even upload their rides on Strava if they don't get a good time or they don't make it public at least.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, exactly.

SOREN JENSEN
So yeah, it's a very competitive segment.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
I think the most competitive segment in the world, to be honest.

SOREN JENSEN
I think so too, yeah. Last thing here, the Sant Martí Sacalm. You've done that also, I'm sure, a thousand of times. It's not really in your backyard like the Rocacorba, but I've heard a few pros are going to some of these, that can now also do some of the efforts or maybe also some of the FTP testing, maybe because it's more consistent in the grade? I don't know, I've never done it. 

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, I think I've done it once. I don't go there often at all. It's a little bit further for me to get there. It is a bit more consistent, the climb, I think, so it does suit quite well to efforts and to FTP. But yeah, for me, it's more the climb that the Girona pros go to, because I think it's exactly half an hour for them to get to the climb, and so it's a really good climb for them. But literally, I think I've done it maybe once or twice, so it's not a climb that I'm super familiar with.

SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, no, me neither. I was just curious, we got to hear it on my last trip there, there was a few guys that were talking about it.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
It's definitely a place to go as a cycling tourist because you will always see pros there because they do use it for their efforts.

SOREN JENSEN
When I did it, the Rocacorba there early March, I ran into, coming down into two professionals coming up, not together but split up in the climb.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, yeah. No, there are often. Because it is, it's a nice challenge. Everyone always needs to do it at some point in their preparation for it.

SOREN JENSEN
But the crown is really sitting there on the Rocacorba. Maybe just look at the top 20 of the riders. But again, big chapeau, Ashleigh thank you so much for jumping on this call with me today on the Castelli podcast, especially live from Colombia. That was amazing.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Thank you. Yeah, it's been great chatting.

SOREN JENSEN
No thank you. Good to see you again. Please give my best regards to Carl and tell him I can't wait to go for a run with him again or a bike ride because we should probably be riding a bit more. I also got into a lot of running over the years, so I also enjoy that bit more of the trail running. That's definitely also something I've found out in your area that is beautiful but also booming, that whole trail running scene.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Yeah, it's definitely booming. So it's nice to be able to do both. When you come in October, bring your trainers and your bike and we can do both.

SOREN JENSEN
Cool, yeah, I will enjoy that. As thank you so much for taking the time and enjoy the rest of the time there in Colombia. Safe trip back and speak to you soon.

ASHLEIGH MOOLMAN-PASIO
Thank you.

SOREN JENSEN
Say hi to Carl for me.