SPORTS NUTRITION EP. 3
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In this episode, we delve into the topic of fueling for race days, ultra events, or triathlons, discussing how to prevent or recover from 'hitting the wall' (also known as bunking), sports drinks, and more on nutrition. This advice comes straight from sports nutrition expert Dani Hofstetter.
For the past two decades, Dani has empowered triathletes, cyclists, world tour riders, ultra athletes, mountaineers, and runners to reach their fullest potential with their fuel. He holds the esteemed IOC Diploma in Sports Nutrition, awarded by the International Olympic Committee.
If you’re seeking specific, expert-backed fueling advice, the Castelli Sports Nutrition series is your source to help fuel your biological machine. It covers a wide variety of information about a healthy cycling lifestyle for athletes of all abilities and training levels.
For the past two decades, Dani has empowered triathletes, cyclists, world tour riders, ultra athletes, mountaineers, and runners to reach their fullest potential with their fuel. He holds the esteemed IOC Diploma in Sports Nutrition, awarded by the International Olympic Committee.
If you’re seeking specific, expert-backed fueling advice, the Castelli Sports Nutrition series is your source to help fuel your biological machine. It covers a wide variety of information about a healthy cycling lifestyle for athletes of all abilities and training levels.
TOPICS COVERED & TRANSCRIPT
(00:00) Introduction
(02:23) Race Day Fueling, Carbo Fueling
(5:39) Protein Absorption
(6:56) Fuel For An Ultra
(10:41) Fueling During a Triathlon, Ironman
(15:21) What Goes Into a Good Sports Drink?
(20:35) Calculate Sweat Rate, Hydration, Sodium
(27:49) Sodium Bicarbonate For Performance
(32:30) Energy Drinks - Substances to Steer Away From
(36:33) Can You Mix Sports Drinks?
(40:01) Carbohydrate Intake, Liquid vs Solid Food
(41:57) Hydro-Bladder For Racing, Unlimited Pro Jersey
(44:39) Ending
SOREN JENSEN
Hello folks and welcome to the Castelli podcast. In this episode, we'll delve into a topic that is important to every one of us, cyclists, triathletes, ultra athletes alike, how to fuel for race day and the best sports drinks practices. We all use sports drinks, search the internet or talk to friends about day-to-day nutrition, advice, fueling strategy for events, and we all have questions about them. And as I look back on conversations I have had with friends, Granfondo cyclists, triathletes and other amateur cyclists about fueling strategy for events, I always find myself giving the same advice when asked what sports drinks I use. My answer is, it depends. What nutrition strategy, brand and product works for me, might not work for you. Training your guard for higher carbo loading is key. The race situation, a long gravel event vs a crit race vs triathlon or preparing for a 6-8 hour funder ride etc. And because I keep having this conversation many times and keep seeing people discuss this topic online, I thought it would be a great topic of conversation for the Castelli Show where we look into the marginal gains that can make you a better overall cyclist. Okay, Dani, welcome back to the podcast. We are really excited to have you back and thanks for joining us again.
DANI HOFSTETTER
My pleasure, Søren.
SOREN JENSEN
Today, we will be talking about fueling strategy for events and we're going to start out at a really high level. So let's say you got this ultra event coming up, but it could be any personal weekend goal or significant event. It's not just about feeling great on the day. It's also about managing your schedule for the upcoming week, being present with your family on a Sunday night when you come home from the ride or the event, and performing at your best at work on Monday morning. These are the aspects which I wish to delve into with you today. So are you prepared to start up with this discussion?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Let's get it going.
SOREN JENSEN
Let's get it going. All right. So you got this 160 kilometer gravel along distant Gran Fondo or triathlon event on the weekend and you're sort of trying to prepare for it. When does it really start? Does it start the night before? Does it start the day before or the morning of the event? How do we all go about this?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Well, generally it starts much earlier than the night before or the breakfast before the gong goes off. I normally tell my athletes to practice what they want as race nutrition way before in training because there's this quote, failing to plan means planning to fail and that goes mainly for nutritional stuff. So if we kind of want to approach from a high level, let's say that every event that goes longer than two hours requires a decent carb loading. With carb loading we mean to maximize our glycogen stores and that is achieved when you consume between 8 and 12 grams of carbohydrates per kilogram body weight. That's a huge amount and that's definitely not fun to eat. These amounts are normally only the kind of pro riders accustomed to because obviously they do this year in, year out during grand tours. But as an amateur rider, you're not used to consuming so many carbs. So that means if you want to have less stress, because obviously, especially if it's your first event, there are some pre-race nerves and we all know that being nervous affects your digestion straight away. So that's normally the reason why I tell people, hey, start easy, take three days before your race day and increase your carbohydrate intake, because then you don't need as much carbs per day. And during those three days, it's not only the amount of carbs, but also the quality, because you realize if you eat a lot of fiber, fruit, vegetables, whole grain stuff, your stool volume is obviously bigger. That's why we need fiber to have a healthy digestion. But for race day, we don't want to spend a lot of time on those temporary plastic toilets. And that's why we reduce the fiber intake during the last 48, 72 hours. That means we eat white rice, we eat plain pasta, we cut down on sauce or spicy, greasy stuff. And this makes sure that everything we eat, most of the energy really goes into our bloodstream, into our muscles and there's low residue in our gut. So less GI distress, less time on the toilet and more peace of mind to focus on your race. And the third element that's necessary is obviously hydration. You can't start hydrating properly the night before, so make sure you hydrate adequately during the week. And a good indicator for that is if your urine has a clear color, it's not fully transparent or colorless, but it has kind of a light yellowish color and you can go for a week five, six times a day, so then you know that you're drinking plenty.
SOREN JENSEN
Is this also the way to go loading up on protein?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Protein is important during the days leading up to, but you don't have to load protein. You cannot save protein in the same regards we're talking about glycogen. But during the last 12 hours, let's say if your weight is on Sunday, starting Saturday around noon, you cut back on protein so that your appetite is fully allocated to carbohydrates and you don't have this immediate protein requirement. You can have some protein also with your pre-raised breakfast, very light one, very little one, so to have an even blood sugar curve, but the protein has kind of been done during the days and weeks leading up to it.
SOREN JENSEN
So we're talking about someone here who is going to do his or her first long distance event. Maybe there is also already a personal goal, but let's just say just finish the race, but then it's more towards the six to eight hour long event. Is there a strategy which you also could recommend for people to kind of put down a nutritional practice, maybe try out different products that are on the markets, eating the amounts per hour that are going to work for you on race day depending on the event and other tips that you could share with us here?
DANI HOFSTETTER
So typically for such long events you never manage to completely refill the energy you spend on the bike no matter how hard or how high your race pace is. So the energy consumption is always higher than you can refuel. And that's why we aim for as high as possible carbohydrate supply, meaning between 90 and 120 grams per hour. Because that's a lot. And it also takes, and that's something we're probably touching on later, it takes a special carbohydrate blend in your sports product, whether it's a drink, whether it's a gel, to be able to absorb these high amounts. And we can see, and that's not recent research, the first studies came out in the 2000s, we can see that the athletes that are eating more, they always have better finishing times. No matter whether you're kind of mid of the pack or up front, the carbohydrate supply always brings you faster across the finish line. And even more so than with carb loading, so the stuff you do before the race even starts, race day nutrition needs practicing. And it's probably not because I practice my gut, we always talk about training the gut, and that's not that you kind of prepare your gut lining or the membrane in your gut to work better. But it's a matter of making a habit to eat regularly, to know that I have chosen the right product, that I have no issues in stomaching, under load. And also to just have the awareness when everything around me goes crazy that I have to eat regularly. Because some mistakes that we often see, especially with new athletes, is about an hour or one and a half hour into the race they realize, I haven't drank enough or I haven't even started eating energy. And that's a gap that you cannot compensate for down the line. And so I always say, practice in the last eight to 10 weeks leading up to an A race, try to find the amount of carbohydrates you can digest on the load and that's in key sessions where you have a similar effort in terms of watts or duration or if it's a triathlon also your run pace and then make sure once you dialed in this amount also be sure to know which products you can use to manage to arrive at these amounts. And make sure that you know what products are available from the organizer of the race, so in the aid stations or these gravel buffets that you have. And if nothing is there that you can fully trust, then obviously I need to develop the logistics to carry enough energy with me. And mostly we arrive at, especially when we talk about sports drinks, that I carry powder with me because you don't want to carry a lot of liquids because there's nothing more heavy than carrying water with me around and the weight slows you down. That's what we discussed last time.
SOREN JENSEN
You're right about that. And then again, it's probably easier if you're on a longer distance bike ride or road ride or gravel ride where you also can have your bike bags on the bike with your powders and gels and more. But what again if you're in a triathlon or an Ironman?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Well, triathlon is not so bad because I mean even if we talk about the longest kind of standardized distance, we talk Ironman distance racing, obviously during the swim you don't eat anything, you swallow probably a bit of ocean water or not, it's better not to, otherwise you have an upset stomach. I've been there, I've done that, check. And then on the bike, kind of the state of the art approach now is that most of the athletes have one bike bottle that they have some form of concentrate, so either a super high concentrated drink, so probably let's say 600 milliliters of water and then all the carbs you would eat during those 180 kilometers. That makes it almost like a big gel, so to speak. And this is something you take small sips from and you only dilute it with water. and water is available at every aid station and then you can dial it down perfectly because there's plenty of water in most races and you're not relying on the product that is available from the organizer and you have your tailored mix on the bike. So the bike is basically simple and if we talk modern racing where all the triathletes are so aero-optimized that they even have a water bottle between their chests, so as an aero-fairing, when they are in their aero position on the bike, they even have kind of additional storage for that. So storage and nutrition on the bike is no issue. And then on the run, that's basically something you need to train because we have mechanical impact, so also the gut and your stomach is getting beaten up during the run. And also you're probably four, five, six hours into your race day, so the body is not completely fresh. And then you're kind of mentally fatigued, so it's harder to stick to your rhythm. I take a gel every 20 minutes or so. And also your stomach gets a bit susceptible in reacting to all those refined carbohydrate products that you've consumed before. And I normally try to solve that, starting the bike ride, I had one or two bars, like solid food, on oat basis, because oats contain a fiber that is kind of soothing the stomach and the gut, and that really helped me to avoid diarrhea or cramping or bloating. So that was a huge plus for me.
SOREN JENSEN
That's a good tip, yeah. No, that was a good one. I wasn't even aware of that. So that's definitely one for the list here. So, okay, then. Now we have touched it already a few times, sports drinks and carbohydrates. So let's just jump straight into sports drinks because I think it's a topic we can sit here and talk about for the next one or two hours about. But let's start to just, I'm not saying keep it high level. I think we should dive into the specifics when it's necessary, but still keep it up to a more easy understanding level. So, okay. So I will kind of say everything we need to know about sports drinks. And this is coming from me also with many years of experience just like yourself, riding my bike also on elite level. When it comes to choosing sports drinks, I think the debate today is even hotter and heavier than it was when I was racing on Elite level 20 years ago. Options abound from electrolytes, charts, powders and tablets to bottle alternatives ranging from sugar-filled to calorie-free. Even some plat adapted athletes are even pouring MCT oil into the water bottles and downing their stuff mid-race to prompt their bodies to burn fat as fuel. The stakes are high. Choose the wrong drink and you could end up along the road with GI distress or bonking with just a few miles left in your race. So what's the right call? That really depends on the type of workout you're doing, whether your drink is supposed to boost performance or just maintain hydration. And to clear up the confusion and help us develop a bonk-proof hydration strategy, I'm going to ask you two of the probably most basic, but perhaps the most tricky and misunderstood questions in sports nutrition. So I hope you're ready for this. I mean, we are going to pick your brain and fueling and hydration in particular. So first, can you tell us what to look for just in general when you're looking at what goes into a good sports drink meant to be used during exercise? Because I know there are also sports drinks that are designed to be used outside of exercise, but we can talk about that later.
DANI HOFSTETTER
There are three things that are interesting when we talk about sports drinks. So basically it's hydration, so water, it's energy, carbohydrates, and I would say carbohydrates only. I'm not a big fan of sports drinks that contain amino acids or other stuff because it only increases the risks of absorption issues or GI distress and the third thing is electrolytes. And the supplement industry or the sports food industry has a tendency of brilliant marketing but also a bit of over complicating things because it sells very well and for certain topics that's necessary because it is complex but there's a good work around sports swings that really keep it simple and only then it's accessible for the everyday athlete. So basically you can differentiate between shorter or longer efforts whether it's training or racing and if you're riding your bike, running, whatever it's not so, depending on the sports you do, but if you have an exercise duration of less than two hours, the recommended carbohydrate supply is 30 to 60 grams per hour, depending on the intensity you do. 30 to 60 grams per hour is an amount where you can use simple sugar. So buy a syrup, the cheapest one in your supermarket in wintertime, make tea, herbal tea, put sugar in it, put honey in it, that's plenty, that helps you to reach these amounts. If we increase duration and or intensity, as I said before, we aim for a carbohydrate supply of 90 to even 120 grams per hour. And our gut can only absorb about 60 grams of simple sugar, meaning glucose or a combination of glucose and sucrose, which is a combination, which is kind of the simple household sugar. And if we go beyond that, so beyond the 60 grams, we need to bring in different carb sources. So either starches, we see in sports drinks, potato starch, rice starch, corn starch, along with glucose and then also a certain part of fructose. And in the ideal ratio, we arrive at 120 grams that are emptied in the right time and at the right amount. So that's how you succeed in drinking as much energy. And these are the state-of-the-art drinks today. And that's basically all that's all the magic when you talk about modern sports drinks. There are certain brands that talk about the manufacturing process of certain carb ingredients, that they have tinkered with the nature of the starch, so it's kind of a resistant starch, or they kind of enveloped the carbohydrate into a substance that should make it easier to digest. It's only bells and whistles. Basically it comes down to the right ratio of glucose, fructose and some starch and being accustomed to it. That's kind of the energy thing and you can differentiate between the shorter training and the longer training. I am a comfortable person, a lazy person. I don't want to have three different drinks, so I always use the one where I can, I could absorb 120 grams. And then lastly, we talk about electrolytes and obviously we sweat when we exercise and everybody tastes that our sweat is salty. Salt is sodium chloride, so it contains sodium and the sodium is the only thing we have to replace during sports. So we don't need magnesium, we don't need potassium, yes we do in our everyday life but not in a sports drink. And the sodium in sports drinks is not necessarily the main task to replace the sodium we lose in sweat, because we have huge sodium stores in our body. It mainly functions as a co-pilot to carbohydrate being absorbed in the gut, because that's a sodium-dependent absorption. And if we have more sodium in the drink, we can absorb the carbs easier. And besides, it helps us because sodium in a beverage motivates us or increases our thirst and makes it more palatable and we should drink more. So it encourages us to drink plenty of that drink. And then you mentioned ultra events, so 8 hours, 10 hours plus. And there, it's basically a matter of your preparation. I encourage athletes that are doing such serious stuff to evaluate their sweat rate. How do you do that? You put yourself on scales before training, ideally naked. You go out for a ride, go for an hour because then you can evaluate the sweat rate per hour. The difference that you measure between your pre-ride weight and your post-ride weight is basically the fluid loss, so the sweat loss. Make sure if you drink something on the bike to factor that in. So if you have a difference on your scales of one kilo and you drank half a liter, then you've lost in total 1.5 liters of sweat. So that's your sweat rate. And the sweat rate obviously depends on climatic conditions, it's cold, but it's quite steady and what's even more steady and kind of genetically predisposed is how much sodium we lose in our sweat. And if we have an effort that's long and where we replace more than 70% of our sweat loss, that's why we need to be aware how much I sweat per hour because then you can do the math. So during an Ironman, let's say I have 10 hours, I'm losing one liter per hour, I would theoretically lose 10 liters, right? Right. Simple math. If I know that I lose one liter per hour and I drink 800 milliliters per hour, I replace 80%. And if I replace more than 70%, I have a dilution factor where I potentially need additional sodium. So the sodium in my drink might not be enough, and that's when I need additional sodium. So the salt tablets that are popped, especially by triathletes, like sugar candy, normally are not necessary because there are very few occasions where you replace more than 70%. But for events where you go on for three days, four days or a stage race where you have these carrier effects, there you obviously need to know how much sweat have I lost and how much sodium does my sweat contain. And that's kind of my last point. There are simple ways to analyze your sweat. You have to collect it. It's like patches that you put on your skin. You sweat, you send them in and then it's a simple laboratory analysis that tells you, okay, if you're losing about 700 milligrams of sodium in one liter of sweat and that gives you a rough idea how much sodium you need to replace.
SOREN JENSEN
So Dan, tell us a little bit more, how easy or difficult is it to get hold of those patches? And also, do you know where to send them? Because I've seen when I was, and I'm back from my trip to the States, Gatorade, they're actually selling one in the US that you can measure. Maybe you're already familiar with that. But I know a lot of athletes, and I heard when I was there, especially triathletes, using that as an easy indicator without having to make any contact or spending a lot of money working with a laboratory on this.
DANI HOFSTETTER
There are more and more commercial companies that offer these analyses, especially for performance sports. There is a company in Germany I have worked with, you mentioned Gatorade, that tried to commercialize this beyond the United States as well. But there are more and more tests emerging. There are several providers, I couldn't name you any specifics for every market, but if you're a serious athlete and you have access to a qualitative sports nutritionist, that's easy to find out how you get this analysis. But there is a tendency of over-analyzing things just because we can, and I normally do this only with athletes that show symptoms of potential sodium deficiencies, so that sodium could be a problem, and that take part in regular races that are as long and that take place in extreme climates where you sweat a lot, where it's hard to replace sodium.
SOREN JENSEN
Never done the test myself, so I don't really know. I can only measure. And also, when you're out there riding a Gran Fondo or another bike race, and you see the guy in front of you in summertime, you just see those big, heavy salt marks on his shorts, and you're thinking, oh, man, this guy, he would definitely need to fill up on sodium sometime soon and hydrate himself. But is that actually true? You see that that person, that athlete is just losing more salt than other people. DANI HOFSTETTER Yes, I mean, having these salt marks or edges on your bibs or on your jersey is a good indicator. We talk about triathletes, it's almost impossible to discern is it salt from my ocean swim? Because obviously I've been with my race suit in the water as well. Yeah, especially if you're racing in Hawaii, you're actually full of salt and that's also a factor for Jeffy. So if the salt water from the sea dries out, your crotch looks not nice after a race. So make sure to rinse it out. But that's a good indicator and those athletes mostly are aware that they need salt and they find out that their stomach is upset. And symptoms that show you it could be a sodium problem is if you feel like I'm drinking too much but the water doesn't leave my stomach it kind of sits there. I'm thirsty but it doesn't go anywhere so that's a good indicator. And as I said if you feel you have the same feeling for your carbohydrate supply if you feel like I'm eating but it's kind of not the spark is not here that could show that you're a bit low on sodium. One thing you can also do, especially when you're racing in hotter environments, is that you kind of preload with a heavy sodium drink. So it's kind of a sodium loading. You take six grams of salt, so not just sodium, six grams of salt, and you drink of this solution 10 milliliters per kilo body weight, so if we have a 70 kilo athlete, he or she would drink 700 milliliters of that saline solution An hour 90 minutes before the race and it makes sure you can more water so you don't have to go to the toilet right away by stomaching such an amount of liquid. Because it contains more sodium, you kind of preload, front load your body with water and dehydration starts later down the road, down your race.
SOREN JENSEN
Dani, before jumping on to my next question, when you mentioned the key ingredients that we want in a sports drink, you kind of steer it away from sodium bicarbonate. I'm pretty sure there's also a good reason for that. Maybe you can just point that out.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Bicarbonate is a buffer. Buffer, maybe you remember your basic chemistry in school, an acid. So yeah, especially in very glycolytic sports, so we have a high lactate build rate, we need a buffer to keep the lactate in check. Our body has enough buffer to make sure that we're not kind of falling over into a coma and that the acidity doesn't rise or skyrocket too fast. But if we want to excel in sports, we always try to push the boundaries and go for the marginal gains. So the idea was, if you increase the buffer in my body by taking sodium bicarbonate it's almost guaranteed if you're not used to it or if you have a sensitive stomach it gives you a really hard time. Bloating, cramping, diarrhea or all three in a concerted approach. So I would steer away from a drink that contains sodium bicarbonate and the classic sodium bicarbonate supplementation, it's been in the news around this year's Tour de France, is done before the race. So either days leading up to it or two to three hours before the gun goes off.
SOREN JENSEN
Okay, and how long would it last? I doubt they will last throughout the whole race. It will probably just be, maybe if you have it, like you said, two, three hours before, will probably just have an effect for doing the first 60 to 90 minutes or what do you think?
DANI HOFSTETTER
No, it's actually longer. Okay. We cannot tell that the whole life of sodium bicarbonate is not sharp and it obviously depends on how many kinds of bursts of lactic acid do you have. It kind of wears off with that. But a proper loading is definitely long enough for one day. Yeah. And when we talk about dosage, you normally take 0.3 to 0.5 grams of sodium bicarbonate per kilogram of body weight and that's 60 to 2.5 hours, 60 minutes or 2.5 hours before the exercise starts. And that means also you buy the real thing from one of the nutrition brands, you just don't go to the supermarket and buy the cheap copper 8 and just try to make a powder. Basically you can make baking powder. It is the same. It's okay. There's one brand that came up with an encapsulated version. It was kind of the talk of the town. Yeah, talk of the peloton. Yeah, I haven't seen it in the market or on the shelf. I couldn't work with it. I can imagine there might be some use to it, but unless I have tested it and I've worked with it with my athletes, I don't use it.
SOREN JENSEN
And plus I've heard that it doesn't come cheap. So it's probably better to just go with baking soda. But again, as Dan pointed out here, guys, go and try it on, test it first during one of your training rides. So you don't start experimenting the days leading up to an important race or just an important weekend.
DANI HOFSTETTER
And especially, I mean, we entered the discussion talking about long events and for an Ironman, for a gravel race that goes 160 k's and takes 8, 9, 10 hours, lactic acid is not your performance constraint. So, if we talk about sprinters, if we talk about classics where you ride for eight hours and then you have the final 15 minutes where you max out your effort at 7.something watts per kilo, then we talk about acidity or lactic buildup.
SOREN JENSEN
So if you say that it stays in your muscles for that long, because I thought it would not last for a six to seven hour race, I always thought of it as an extra boost, especially for criteriums or gravel races where you have the first hour when it's really like fully on. That's where I always thought it made sense to take, but I didn't really realize that it will remain within your muscles for the entire day. So that's also good to know.
DANI HOFSTETTER
It takes quite long and it has to because it's super ugly to drink. It takes a lot of courage and motivation.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, you would probably have to add some flavors to it. So Dan, with sports drinks, is there anything that should not be seen in our sports drinks or are we talking more about energy drinks here? Because in energy drinks, we have seen types of stimulants such as Guaran, caffeine, taurine, ginseng. I mean, those are common in energy drinks, but what about sports drinks? Are there any of those stimulants that you think that we should definitely stay aware of?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Those substances are not well researched, and what we do know is they don't help you in the immediate moment of performing. So that's for me then already a clear no, because everything that doesn't necessarily boost my performance, but brings a risk of having certain issues in my digestion, whether I have an upset stomach, whether I have to burp a lot because of bubbles or whatever could emerge of that is a risk that's not necessary to be taken. And caffeine is obviously something that boosts your performance, but we can take caffeine easier than drinking an energy drink during a race. Most often we have artificial flavors, artificial sweeteners and all these things bring, as I said, a certain risk of an upset stomach. That's why I would keep it with a simple and proven solution. The modern sports drinks are mostly quite low in acidity because you don't want to upset your stomach with a lot of acid. They have much fewer flavors than, let's say 10 or 20 years ago, because there is a certain risk of flavor fatigue. Flavor fatigue is when you know that, like in a training camp where you drink liters of the same drink every day, after three days you're really fed up with it. And once you start being fed up with the drink, you will not drink enough. So we need to address flavor fatigue. We can do that by having a flavorless drinking powder or having two different flavors and mix and match it to our preference. And then so much of the kind of functional ingredients that are marketed as being good for your brain or your hormones or whatnot you read in those energy drinks is not proven at any point. And that's why I would say steer away from it. There are certain situations, like I had an athlete that took part in a Trans-Pyrenees race that's roughly 2000 kilometers twice across the Pyrenees range on a road bike. And you had to, so it's self-supporting. So basically the Pyrenees don't have a gas station with a convenience store every 10 Ks. So you need to make sure that you know how to address your energy needs. And if a Coca-Cola or a Red Bull is the only can you can buy in a lonely village, then obviously this is the best solution. But if you have a choice, I would not recommend going for an energy drink.
SOREN JENSEN
That makes sense. What, if you look at the composition of that drink, if it has too many, as you mentioned that also on the earlier podcast we did on day-to-day nutrition, you know, if there are too many ingredients written on the bag, then you probably should stay away from it. It's probably a red flag, isn't it?
DANI HOFSTETTER
I mean, it has a tendency, yes. And also in a sports drink that we use on the bike during exercise, we don't need any vitamins, we don't need magnesium, potassium, or what kind of fancy ingredients. All we need is water, sugar, and electrolytes.
SOREN JENSEN
So can you mix and match different carbohydrate sports drinks or powder brands? I mean, can I put in some moderate carb from one brand and mix it with another scoop of super high carb drink mix of another brand or drop in an electrolyte tablet or something like that. Is that a big no-go for you?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Normally, you can do that if it goes together well and it's not kind of a weird taste. There could be, let's say, if you mix two products and on a scale from one to ten, each product gives you a three on a risk scale of gastrointestinal distress. And if you combine two threes, you probably end up at a five, not necessarily at a six. So make sure you combine the right things, but it could work out well. And as I said, if you do these calculations on what's my sweat rate, if you know how much sodium you lose and you realize I need a drink that contains more salt, you can easily add just table salt to a perfectly balanced drink that you know you can cope with. That's no issue. And that's basically the way we do it for certain situations.
SOREN JENSEN
Right. Right. Yeah. So that's a really good point, especially with how many milligrams of sodium you would need per hour. And that, of course, you have to test on a warm, hot summer day and mild temperatures for their full season. So you know how much you're going to need. But I think especially during summertime, it'll be important to test that. But then also kind of to wrap up this whole, how many grams of carb you need. We know that the calories you would need per hour is a personal thing, an individual thing. So we got 30 to 60 grams of carb per hour. And I think here we're talking about the workout between 90 minutes and two hours. Is that 30 to 60 grams of carb? Yes. Okay, and then everything above two, two and a half hours, we're getting into that 90 to 120 plus grams of carb per hour.
DANI HOFSTETTER
I would say if you go for three hours and you have some quality in there, try to hit 80 grams per hour, which is all, I mean, all my athletes say, well, 80 per hour, I need like an additional powder bag or I need to bring a bar and it's kind of tantalizing. Yes it is, but if you have to earn a lot, you have to burn a lot, right? And so for three to four hours, 80 grams is plenty. And if you go longer, then easily go beyond 100 grams. Yes, it is. You have to plan, you have to bring stuff along or buy on the road, but it's definitely worth it. Because you realize your energy is so much more steady towards the end of the ride. You have no issues with bonking, you recover much better, your overall feeling is better, you don't get home and you're in a complete zombie state, like dizzy and angry or hangry, you can ask my girlfriend, it happens, even to me. And it's really, it's paying off. And then if you take a very intense workout, like your high intensity intervals and stuff like that, that last for only like the entire ride, for let's say 90 minutes or two hours, you're out there at a pace or on your stationary bike that is so high that you could never stomach 90 or 120 grams. So then you're actually down to 60 anyway or 60, 70.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah. But also then the carbohydrate intake that you need per hour, what would the percentage be on a normal long distance event between the liquid and the solid food intake?
DANI HOFSTETTER
That's a very personal ratio. I personally say the higher the intensity, the more liquid your calories have to come in because you get tired of chewing. If you don't chew well, you don't digest well and it takes longer until the energy is in your system. And so for race day I would normally say the lion's share is always drinks and gel. I can tell you after a good career in endurance sports, you're not a big gel fan anymore. They have a tendency to kind of grow on you, hold on you. But anyway, it's the easiest way to have a high-density carbohydrate supply. As I said, logistics are a major factor. So if you're self-supported, whether it's in a training or in a race, carrying around water or driving around water is never a fast process. So make sure you get the right blend, how much solid food you have or how much water you carry. And be aware that we have two requirements. We have a fluid requirement and we have an energy requirement and they're not always in line, so it depends on the climate. And that's probably too individual to explain here, a one-for-all approach. But a simple and kind of broad range that works for most athletes is at a normal temperature, drinking 600 to 800 milliliters per hour. So that's a good fluid supply and the dosage of carbohydrates we've already addressed. So if you have the two things. And then, as I said, having at certain times solid food can kind of soothe down the entire system, makes sense. But I have athletes, they cope with everything and take just the easiest approach.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, you're right. And then we also have the gravel or mountain bike marathon scenario where a lot of cyclists use a hydro bladder which can come in handy especially during the first hour of the race when the race pace is high or when hitting the trails where you don't necessarily have the time to get energy bars out of your pockets or take your hands off the bars for drinks. You know then having a high calorie drink mix in the bladder is the easiest way and then when the pace levels off you can start eating bars, rice cakes and other things. Then you also have a marginal gain error advantage with a hydration bladder. And good news for all you gravel racers out there, including you, Dani. Next year, Castelli is introducing a pro-level aero jersey designed with a hydro 1.5 liter bladder pocket for when every second counts, as the bladder has shown to be slightly more aerodynamic versus not wearing one.
DANI HOFSTETTER
That's great news.
SOREN JENSEN
And that's also one of the reasons why UCI has banned the use of hydro bladders in road racing.
DANI HOFSTETTER
But mountain bike races and marathons, it's a given. And I'm working with two athletes in preparation for next year's Cape Epic. And because you never know whether the supply, like the personal team supply, works out in the bushes, we probably use hydro packs as well.
SOREN JENSEN
Right. I think at that point, later in the race, after maybe the first 90 minutes or more, then the race also typically switches to a moderate pace. And then you can probably also switch to moderate carbohydrate intake with maybe a bit higher electrolytes later in the day. What do you think about that strategy? Because we also need to be careful that they're balanced correctly. I mean, you're also then getting real food into your belly so that everything keeps on absorbing.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Yes, that's something you need to find out for your preference and also how you can cope with a consistent load or whether you need to periodize the intake. I try to keep the fueling strategy as simple as possible because if the whole race frenzy starts, you're kind of lost and you lose track of, oh, is the next hour now 80 grams or 120 grams? If you can rely on kind of food supply from a team car, as we have this in Pro Tour, then it's easy because then your director or sportive gives you just the right bottle and then the strategy is pretty much dialed and monitored. But the high athlete, the gravel athlete, they are relying on their minds and memories. So I try to keep it simple and stupid.
SOREN JENSEN
For those who are there, the best advice. Okay everyone, that's it for this week's episode. Tune in again next week where we will discuss how to fuel your body for long and cold winter training rides and indoor riding. So if you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to subscribe, give us a rating or review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts to help us be seen by other cyclists in the algorithm. And if you want to suggest a future podcast topic, just shoot us a line at podcast at castelli-cycling.com or hit us up on socials. I'll also drop Dennis' contact details and other important links from this episode in the show notes. in the show notes. Till then, take care everyone, ride safe and see you soon.
(02:23) Race Day Fueling, Carbo Fueling
(5:39) Protein Absorption
(6:56) Fuel For An Ultra
(10:41) Fueling During a Triathlon, Ironman
(15:21) What Goes Into a Good Sports Drink?
(20:35) Calculate Sweat Rate, Hydration, Sodium
(27:49) Sodium Bicarbonate For Performance
(32:30) Energy Drinks - Substances to Steer Away From
(36:33) Can You Mix Sports Drinks?
(40:01) Carbohydrate Intake, Liquid vs Solid Food
(41:57) Hydro-Bladder For Racing, Unlimited Pro Jersey
(44:39) Ending
SOREN JENSEN
Hello folks and welcome to the Castelli podcast. In this episode, we'll delve into a topic that is important to every one of us, cyclists, triathletes, ultra athletes alike, how to fuel for race day and the best sports drinks practices. We all use sports drinks, search the internet or talk to friends about day-to-day nutrition, advice, fueling strategy for events, and we all have questions about them. And as I look back on conversations I have had with friends, Granfondo cyclists, triathletes and other amateur cyclists about fueling strategy for events, I always find myself giving the same advice when asked what sports drinks I use. My answer is, it depends. What nutrition strategy, brand and product works for me, might not work for you. Training your guard for higher carbo loading is key. The race situation, a long gravel event vs a crit race vs triathlon or preparing for a 6-8 hour funder ride etc. And because I keep having this conversation many times and keep seeing people discuss this topic online, I thought it would be a great topic of conversation for the Castelli Show where we look into the marginal gains that can make you a better overall cyclist. Okay, Dani, welcome back to the podcast. We are really excited to have you back and thanks for joining us again.
DANI HOFSTETTER
My pleasure, Søren.
SOREN JENSEN
Today, we will be talking about fueling strategy for events and we're going to start out at a really high level. So let's say you got this ultra event coming up, but it could be any personal weekend goal or significant event. It's not just about feeling great on the day. It's also about managing your schedule for the upcoming week, being present with your family on a Sunday night when you come home from the ride or the event, and performing at your best at work on Monday morning. These are the aspects which I wish to delve into with you today. So are you prepared to start up with this discussion?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Let's get it going.
SOREN JENSEN
Let's get it going. All right. So you got this 160 kilometer gravel along distant Gran Fondo or triathlon event on the weekend and you're sort of trying to prepare for it. When does it really start? Does it start the night before? Does it start the day before or the morning of the event? How do we all go about this?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Well, generally it starts much earlier than the night before or the breakfast before the gong goes off. I normally tell my athletes to practice what they want as race nutrition way before in training because there's this quote, failing to plan means planning to fail and that goes mainly for nutritional stuff. So if we kind of want to approach from a high level, let's say that every event that goes longer than two hours requires a decent carb loading. With carb loading we mean to maximize our glycogen stores and that is achieved when you consume between 8 and 12 grams of carbohydrates per kilogram body weight. That's a huge amount and that's definitely not fun to eat. These amounts are normally only the kind of pro riders accustomed to because obviously they do this year in, year out during grand tours. But as an amateur rider, you're not used to consuming so many carbs. So that means if you want to have less stress, because obviously, especially if it's your first event, there are some pre-race nerves and we all know that being nervous affects your digestion straight away. So that's normally the reason why I tell people, hey, start easy, take three days before your race day and increase your carbohydrate intake, because then you don't need as much carbs per day. And during those three days, it's not only the amount of carbs, but also the quality, because you realize if you eat a lot of fiber, fruit, vegetables, whole grain stuff, your stool volume is obviously bigger. That's why we need fiber to have a healthy digestion. But for race day, we don't want to spend a lot of time on those temporary plastic toilets. And that's why we reduce the fiber intake during the last 48, 72 hours. That means we eat white rice, we eat plain pasta, we cut down on sauce or spicy, greasy stuff. And this makes sure that everything we eat, most of the energy really goes into our bloodstream, into our muscles and there's low residue in our gut. So less GI distress, less time on the toilet and more peace of mind to focus on your race. And the third element that's necessary is obviously hydration. You can't start hydrating properly the night before, so make sure you hydrate adequately during the week. And a good indicator for that is if your urine has a clear color, it's not fully transparent or colorless, but it has kind of a light yellowish color and you can go for a week five, six times a day, so then you know that you're drinking plenty.
SOREN JENSEN
Is this also the way to go loading up on protein?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Protein is important during the days leading up to, but you don't have to load protein. You cannot save protein in the same regards we're talking about glycogen. But during the last 12 hours, let's say if your weight is on Sunday, starting Saturday around noon, you cut back on protein so that your appetite is fully allocated to carbohydrates and you don't have this immediate protein requirement. You can have some protein also with your pre-raised breakfast, very light one, very little one, so to have an even blood sugar curve, but the protein has kind of been done during the days and weeks leading up to it.
SOREN JENSEN
So we're talking about someone here who is going to do his or her first long distance event. Maybe there is also already a personal goal, but let's just say just finish the race, but then it's more towards the six to eight hour long event. Is there a strategy which you also could recommend for people to kind of put down a nutritional practice, maybe try out different products that are on the markets, eating the amounts per hour that are going to work for you on race day depending on the event and other tips that you could share with us here?
DANI HOFSTETTER
So typically for such long events you never manage to completely refill the energy you spend on the bike no matter how hard or how high your race pace is. So the energy consumption is always higher than you can refuel. And that's why we aim for as high as possible carbohydrate supply, meaning between 90 and 120 grams per hour. Because that's a lot. And it also takes, and that's something we're probably touching on later, it takes a special carbohydrate blend in your sports product, whether it's a drink, whether it's a gel, to be able to absorb these high amounts. And we can see, and that's not recent research, the first studies came out in the 2000s, we can see that the athletes that are eating more, they always have better finishing times. No matter whether you're kind of mid of the pack or up front, the carbohydrate supply always brings you faster across the finish line. And even more so than with carb loading, so the stuff you do before the race even starts, race day nutrition needs practicing. And it's probably not because I practice my gut, we always talk about training the gut, and that's not that you kind of prepare your gut lining or the membrane in your gut to work better. But it's a matter of making a habit to eat regularly, to know that I have chosen the right product, that I have no issues in stomaching, under load. And also to just have the awareness when everything around me goes crazy that I have to eat regularly. Because some mistakes that we often see, especially with new athletes, is about an hour or one and a half hour into the race they realize, I haven't drank enough or I haven't even started eating energy. And that's a gap that you cannot compensate for down the line. And so I always say, practice in the last eight to 10 weeks leading up to an A race, try to find the amount of carbohydrates you can digest on the load and that's in key sessions where you have a similar effort in terms of watts or duration or if it's a triathlon also your run pace and then make sure once you dialed in this amount also be sure to know which products you can use to manage to arrive at these amounts. And make sure that you know what products are available from the organizer of the race, so in the aid stations or these gravel buffets that you have. And if nothing is there that you can fully trust, then obviously I need to develop the logistics to carry enough energy with me. And mostly we arrive at, especially when we talk about sports drinks, that I carry powder with me because you don't want to carry a lot of liquids because there's nothing more heavy than carrying water with me around and the weight slows you down. That's what we discussed last time.
SOREN JENSEN
You're right about that. And then again, it's probably easier if you're on a longer distance bike ride or road ride or gravel ride where you also can have your bike bags on the bike with your powders and gels and more. But what again if you're in a triathlon or an Ironman?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Well, triathlon is not so bad because I mean even if we talk about the longest kind of standardized distance, we talk Ironman distance racing, obviously during the swim you don't eat anything, you swallow probably a bit of ocean water or not, it's better not to, otherwise you have an upset stomach. I've been there, I've done that, check. And then on the bike, kind of the state of the art approach now is that most of the athletes have one bike bottle that they have some form of concentrate, so either a super high concentrated drink, so probably let's say 600 milliliters of water and then all the carbs you would eat during those 180 kilometers. That makes it almost like a big gel, so to speak. And this is something you take small sips from and you only dilute it with water. and water is available at every aid station and then you can dial it down perfectly because there's plenty of water in most races and you're not relying on the product that is available from the organizer and you have your tailored mix on the bike. So the bike is basically simple and if we talk modern racing where all the triathletes are so aero-optimized that they even have a water bottle between their chests, so as an aero-fairing, when they are in their aero position on the bike, they even have kind of additional storage for that. So storage and nutrition on the bike is no issue. And then on the run, that's basically something you need to train because we have mechanical impact, so also the gut and your stomach is getting beaten up during the run. And also you're probably four, five, six hours into your race day, so the body is not completely fresh. And then you're kind of mentally fatigued, so it's harder to stick to your rhythm. I take a gel every 20 minutes or so. And also your stomach gets a bit susceptible in reacting to all those refined carbohydrate products that you've consumed before. And I normally try to solve that, starting the bike ride, I had one or two bars, like solid food, on oat basis, because oats contain a fiber that is kind of soothing the stomach and the gut, and that really helped me to avoid diarrhea or cramping or bloating. So that was a huge plus for me.
SOREN JENSEN
That's a good tip, yeah. No, that was a good one. I wasn't even aware of that. So that's definitely one for the list here. So, okay, then. Now we have touched it already a few times, sports drinks and carbohydrates. So let's just jump straight into sports drinks because I think it's a topic we can sit here and talk about for the next one or two hours about. But let's start to just, I'm not saying keep it high level. I think we should dive into the specifics when it's necessary, but still keep it up to a more easy understanding level. So, okay. So I will kind of say everything we need to know about sports drinks. And this is coming from me also with many years of experience just like yourself, riding my bike also on elite level. When it comes to choosing sports drinks, I think the debate today is even hotter and heavier than it was when I was racing on Elite level 20 years ago. Options abound from electrolytes, charts, powders and tablets to bottle alternatives ranging from sugar-filled to calorie-free. Even some plat adapted athletes are even pouring MCT oil into the water bottles and downing their stuff mid-race to prompt their bodies to burn fat as fuel. The stakes are high. Choose the wrong drink and you could end up along the road with GI distress or bonking with just a few miles left in your race. So what's the right call? That really depends on the type of workout you're doing, whether your drink is supposed to boost performance or just maintain hydration. And to clear up the confusion and help us develop a bonk-proof hydration strategy, I'm going to ask you two of the probably most basic, but perhaps the most tricky and misunderstood questions in sports nutrition. So I hope you're ready for this. I mean, we are going to pick your brain and fueling and hydration in particular. So first, can you tell us what to look for just in general when you're looking at what goes into a good sports drink meant to be used during exercise? Because I know there are also sports drinks that are designed to be used outside of exercise, but we can talk about that later.
DANI HOFSTETTER
There are three things that are interesting when we talk about sports drinks. So basically it's hydration, so water, it's energy, carbohydrates, and I would say carbohydrates only. I'm not a big fan of sports drinks that contain amino acids or other stuff because it only increases the risks of absorption issues or GI distress and the third thing is electrolytes. And the supplement industry or the sports food industry has a tendency of brilliant marketing but also a bit of over complicating things because it sells very well and for certain topics that's necessary because it is complex but there's a good work around sports swings that really keep it simple and only then it's accessible for the everyday athlete. So basically you can differentiate between shorter or longer efforts whether it's training or racing and if you're riding your bike, running, whatever it's not so, depending on the sports you do, but if you have an exercise duration of less than two hours, the recommended carbohydrate supply is 30 to 60 grams per hour, depending on the intensity you do. 30 to 60 grams per hour is an amount where you can use simple sugar. So buy a syrup, the cheapest one in your supermarket in wintertime, make tea, herbal tea, put sugar in it, put honey in it, that's plenty, that helps you to reach these amounts. If we increase duration and or intensity, as I said before, we aim for a carbohydrate supply of 90 to even 120 grams per hour. And our gut can only absorb about 60 grams of simple sugar, meaning glucose or a combination of glucose and sucrose, which is a combination, which is kind of the simple household sugar. And if we go beyond that, so beyond the 60 grams, we need to bring in different carb sources. So either starches, we see in sports drinks, potato starch, rice starch, corn starch, along with glucose and then also a certain part of fructose. And in the ideal ratio, we arrive at 120 grams that are emptied in the right time and at the right amount. So that's how you succeed in drinking as much energy. And these are the state-of-the-art drinks today. And that's basically all that's all the magic when you talk about modern sports drinks. There are certain brands that talk about the manufacturing process of certain carb ingredients, that they have tinkered with the nature of the starch, so it's kind of a resistant starch, or they kind of enveloped the carbohydrate into a substance that should make it easier to digest. It's only bells and whistles. Basically it comes down to the right ratio of glucose, fructose and some starch and being accustomed to it. That's kind of the energy thing and you can differentiate between the shorter training and the longer training. I am a comfortable person, a lazy person. I don't want to have three different drinks, so I always use the one where I can, I could absorb 120 grams. And then lastly, we talk about electrolytes and obviously we sweat when we exercise and everybody tastes that our sweat is salty. Salt is sodium chloride, so it contains sodium and the sodium is the only thing we have to replace during sports. So we don't need magnesium, we don't need potassium, yes we do in our everyday life but not in a sports drink. And the sodium in sports drinks is not necessarily the main task to replace the sodium we lose in sweat, because we have huge sodium stores in our body. It mainly functions as a co-pilot to carbohydrate being absorbed in the gut, because that's a sodium-dependent absorption. And if we have more sodium in the drink, we can absorb the carbs easier. And besides, it helps us because sodium in a beverage motivates us or increases our thirst and makes it more palatable and we should drink more. So it encourages us to drink plenty of that drink. And then you mentioned ultra events, so 8 hours, 10 hours plus. And there, it's basically a matter of your preparation. I encourage athletes that are doing such serious stuff to evaluate their sweat rate. How do you do that? You put yourself on scales before training, ideally naked. You go out for a ride, go for an hour because then you can evaluate the sweat rate per hour. The difference that you measure between your pre-ride weight and your post-ride weight is basically the fluid loss, so the sweat loss. Make sure if you drink something on the bike to factor that in. So if you have a difference on your scales of one kilo and you drank half a liter, then you've lost in total 1.5 liters of sweat. So that's your sweat rate. And the sweat rate obviously depends on climatic conditions, it's cold, but it's quite steady and what's even more steady and kind of genetically predisposed is how much sodium we lose in our sweat. And if we have an effort that's long and where we replace more than 70% of our sweat loss, that's why we need to be aware how much I sweat per hour because then you can do the math. So during an Ironman, let's say I have 10 hours, I'm losing one liter per hour, I would theoretically lose 10 liters, right? Right. Simple math. If I know that I lose one liter per hour and I drink 800 milliliters per hour, I replace 80%. And if I replace more than 70%, I have a dilution factor where I potentially need additional sodium. So the sodium in my drink might not be enough, and that's when I need additional sodium. So the salt tablets that are popped, especially by triathletes, like sugar candy, normally are not necessary because there are very few occasions where you replace more than 70%. But for events where you go on for three days, four days or a stage race where you have these carrier effects, there you obviously need to know how much sweat have I lost and how much sodium does my sweat contain. And that's kind of my last point. There are simple ways to analyze your sweat. You have to collect it. It's like patches that you put on your skin. You sweat, you send them in and then it's a simple laboratory analysis that tells you, okay, if you're losing about 700 milligrams of sodium in one liter of sweat and that gives you a rough idea how much sodium you need to replace.
SOREN JENSEN
So Dan, tell us a little bit more, how easy or difficult is it to get hold of those patches? And also, do you know where to send them? Because I've seen when I was, and I'm back from my trip to the States, Gatorade, they're actually selling one in the US that you can measure. Maybe you're already familiar with that. But I know a lot of athletes, and I heard when I was there, especially triathletes, using that as an easy indicator without having to make any contact or spending a lot of money working with a laboratory on this.
DANI HOFSTETTER
There are more and more commercial companies that offer these analyses, especially for performance sports. There is a company in Germany I have worked with, you mentioned Gatorade, that tried to commercialize this beyond the United States as well. But there are more and more tests emerging. There are several providers, I couldn't name you any specifics for every market, but if you're a serious athlete and you have access to a qualitative sports nutritionist, that's easy to find out how you get this analysis. But there is a tendency of over-analyzing things just because we can, and I normally do this only with athletes that show symptoms of potential sodium deficiencies, so that sodium could be a problem, and that take part in regular races that are as long and that take place in extreme climates where you sweat a lot, where it's hard to replace sodium.
SOREN JENSEN
Never done the test myself, so I don't really know. I can only measure. And also, when you're out there riding a Gran Fondo or another bike race, and you see the guy in front of you in summertime, you just see those big, heavy salt marks on his shorts, and you're thinking, oh, man, this guy, he would definitely need to fill up on sodium sometime soon and hydrate himself. But is that actually true? You see that that person, that athlete is just losing more salt than other people. DANI HOFSTETTER Yes, I mean, having these salt marks or edges on your bibs or on your jersey is a good indicator. We talk about triathletes, it's almost impossible to discern is it salt from my ocean swim? Because obviously I've been with my race suit in the water as well. Yeah, especially if you're racing in Hawaii, you're actually full of salt and that's also a factor for Jeffy. So if the salt water from the sea dries out, your crotch looks not nice after a race. So make sure to rinse it out. But that's a good indicator and those athletes mostly are aware that they need salt and they find out that their stomach is upset. And symptoms that show you it could be a sodium problem is if you feel like I'm drinking too much but the water doesn't leave my stomach it kind of sits there. I'm thirsty but it doesn't go anywhere so that's a good indicator. And as I said if you feel you have the same feeling for your carbohydrate supply if you feel like I'm eating but it's kind of not the spark is not here that could show that you're a bit low on sodium. One thing you can also do, especially when you're racing in hotter environments, is that you kind of preload with a heavy sodium drink. So it's kind of a sodium loading. You take six grams of salt, so not just sodium, six grams of salt, and you drink of this solution 10 milliliters per kilo body weight, so if we have a 70 kilo athlete, he or she would drink 700 milliliters of that saline solution An hour 90 minutes before the race and it makes sure you can more water so you don't have to go to the toilet right away by stomaching such an amount of liquid. Because it contains more sodium, you kind of preload, front load your body with water and dehydration starts later down the road, down your race.
SOREN JENSEN
Dani, before jumping on to my next question, when you mentioned the key ingredients that we want in a sports drink, you kind of steer it away from sodium bicarbonate. I'm pretty sure there's also a good reason for that. Maybe you can just point that out.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Bicarbonate is a buffer. Buffer, maybe you remember your basic chemistry in school, an acid. So yeah, especially in very glycolytic sports, so we have a high lactate build rate, we need a buffer to keep the lactate in check. Our body has enough buffer to make sure that we're not kind of falling over into a coma and that the acidity doesn't rise or skyrocket too fast. But if we want to excel in sports, we always try to push the boundaries and go for the marginal gains. So the idea was, if you increase the buffer in my body by taking sodium bicarbonate it's almost guaranteed if you're not used to it or if you have a sensitive stomach it gives you a really hard time. Bloating, cramping, diarrhea or all three in a concerted approach. So I would steer away from a drink that contains sodium bicarbonate and the classic sodium bicarbonate supplementation, it's been in the news around this year's Tour de France, is done before the race. So either days leading up to it or two to three hours before the gun goes off.
SOREN JENSEN
Okay, and how long would it last? I doubt they will last throughout the whole race. It will probably just be, maybe if you have it, like you said, two, three hours before, will probably just have an effect for doing the first 60 to 90 minutes or what do you think?
DANI HOFSTETTER
No, it's actually longer. Okay. We cannot tell that the whole life of sodium bicarbonate is not sharp and it obviously depends on how many kinds of bursts of lactic acid do you have. It kind of wears off with that. But a proper loading is definitely long enough for one day. Yeah. And when we talk about dosage, you normally take 0.3 to 0.5 grams of sodium bicarbonate per kilogram of body weight and that's 60 to 2.5 hours, 60 minutes or 2.5 hours before the exercise starts. And that means also you buy the real thing from one of the nutrition brands, you just don't go to the supermarket and buy the cheap copper 8 and just try to make a powder. Basically you can make baking powder. It is the same. It's okay. There's one brand that came up with an encapsulated version. It was kind of the talk of the town. Yeah, talk of the peloton. Yeah, I haven't seen it in the market or on the shelf. I couldn't work with it. I can imagine there might be some use to it, but unless I have tested it and I've worked with it with my athletes, I don't use it.
SOREN JENSEN
And plus I've heard that it doesn't come cheap. So it's probably better to just go with baking soda. But again, as Dan pointed out here, guys, go and try it on, test it first during one of your training rides. So you don't start experimenting the days leading up to an important race or just an important weekend.
DANI HOFSTETTER
And especially, I mean, we entered the discussion talking about long events and for an Ironman, for a gravel race that goes 160 k's and takes 8, 9, 10 hours, lactic acid is not your performance constraint. So, if we talk about sprinters, if we talk about classics where you ride for eight hours and then you have the final 15 minutes where you max out your effort at 7.something watts per kilo, then we talk about acidity or lactic buildup.
SOREN JENSEN
So if you say that it stays in your muscles for that long, because I thought it would not last for a six to seven hour race, I always thought of it as an extra boost, especially for criteriums or gravel races where you have the first hour when it's really like fully on. That's where I always thought it made sense to take, but I didn't really realize that it will remain within your muscles for the entire day. So that's also good to know.
DANI HOFSTETTER
It takes quite long and it has to because it's super ugly to drink. It takes a lot of courage and motivation.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, you would probably have to add some flavors to it. So Dan, with sports drinks, is there anything that should not be seen in our sports drinks or are we talking more about energy drinks here? Because in energy drinks, we have seen types of stimulants such as Guaran, caffeine, taurine, ginseng. I mean, those are common in energy drinks, but what about sports drinks? Are there any of those stimulants that you think that we should definitely stay aware of?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Those substances are not well researched, and what we do know is they don't help you in the immediate moment of performing. So that's for me then already a clear no, because everything that doesn't necessarily boost my performance, but brings a risk of having certain issues in my digestion, whether I have an upset stomach, whether I have to burp a lot because of bubbles or whatever could emerge of that is a risk that's not necessary to be taken. And caffeine is obviously something that boosts your performance, but we can take caffeine easier than drinking an energy drink during a race. Most often we have artificial flavors, artificial sweeteners and all these things bring, as I said, a certain risk of an upset stomach. That's why I would keep it with a simple and proven solution. The modern sports drinks are mostly quite low in acidity because you don't want to upset your stomach with a lot of acid. They have much fewer flavors than, let's say 10 or 20 years ago, because there is a certain risk of flavor fatigue. Flavor fatigue is when you know that, like in a training camp where you drink liters of the same drink every day, after three days you're really fed up with it. And once you start being fed up with the drink, you will not drink enough. So we need to address flavor fatigue. We can do that by having a flavorless drinking powder or having two different flavors and mix and match it to our preference. And then so much of the kind of functional ingredients that are marketed as being good for your brain or your hormones or whatnot you read in those energy drinks is not proven at any point. And that's why I would say steer away from it. There are certain situations, like I had an athlete that took part in a Trans-Pyrenees race that's roughly 2000 kilometers twice across the Pyrenees range on a road bike. And you had to, so it's self-supporting. So basically the Pyrenees don't have a gas station with a convenience store every 10 Ks. So you need to make sure that you know how to address your energy needs. And if a Coca-Cola or a Red Bull is the only can you can buy in a lonely village, then obviously this is the best solution. But if you have a choice, I would not recommend going for an energy drink.
SOREN JENSEN
That makes sense. What, if you look at the composition of that drink, if it has too many, as you mentioned that also on the earlier podcast we did on day-to-day nutrition, you know, if there are too many ingredients written on the bag, then you probably should stay away from it. It's probably a red flag, isn't it?
DANI HOFSTETTER
I mean, it has a tendency, yes. And also in a sports drink that we use on the bike during exercise, we don't need any vitamins, we don't need magnesium, potassium, or what kind of fancy ingredients. All we need is water, sugar, and electrolytes.
SOREN JENSEN
So can you mix and match different carbohydrate sports drinks or powder brands? I mean, can I put in some moderate carb from one brand and mix it with another scoop of super high carb drink mix of another brand or drop in an electrolyte tablet or something like that. Is that a big no-go for you?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Normally, you can do that if it goes together well and it's not kind of a weird taste. There could be, let's say, if you mix two products and on a scale from one to ten, each product gives you a three on a risk scale of gastrointestinal distress. And if you combine two threes, you probably end up at a five, not necessarily at a six. So make sure you combine the right things, but it could work out well. And as I said, if you do these calculations on what's my sweat rate, if you know how much sodium you lose and you realize I need a drink that contains more salt, you can easily add just table salt to a perfectly balanced drink that you know you can cope with. That's no issue. And that's basically the way we do it for certain situations.
SOREN JENSEN
Right. Right. Yeah. So that's a really good point, especially with how many milligrams of sodium you would need per hour. And that, of course, you have to test on a warm, hot summer day and mild temperatures for their full season. So you know how much you're going to need. But I think especially during summertime, it'll be important to test that. But then also kind of to wrap up this whole, how many grams of carb you need. We know that the calories you would need per hour is a personal thing, an individual thing. So we got 30 to 60 grams of carb per hour. And I think here we're talking about the workout between 90 minutes and two hours. Is that 30 to 60 grams of carb? Yes. Okay, and then everything above two, two and a half hours, we're getting into that 90 to 120 plus grams of carb per hour.
DANI HOFSTETTER
I would say if you go for three hours and you have some quality in there, try to hit 80 grams per hour, which is all, I mean, all my athletes say, well, 80 per hour, I need like an additional powder bag or I need to bring a bar and it's kind of tantalizing. Yes it is, but if you have to earn a lot, you have to burn a lot, right? And so for three to four hours, 80 grams is plenty. And if you go longer, then easily go beyond 100 grams. Yes, it is. You have to plan, you have to bring stuff along or buy on the road, but it's definitely worth it. Because you realize your energy is so much more steady towards the end of the ride. You have no issues with bonking, you recover much better, your overall feeling is better, you don't get home and you're in a complete zombie state, like dizzy and angry or hangry, you can ask my girlfriend, it happens, even to me. And it's really, it's paying off. And then if you take a very intense workout, like your high intensity intervals and stuff like that, that last for only like the entire ride, for let's say 90 minutes or two hours, you're out there at a pace or on your stationary bike that is so high that you could never stomach 90 or 120 grams. So then you're actually down to 60 anyway or 60, 70.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah. But also then the carbohydrate intake that you need per hour, what would the percentage be on a normal long distance event between the liquid and the solid food intake?
DANI HOFSTETTER
That's a very personal ratio. I personally say the higher the intensity, the more liquid your calories have to come in because you get tired of chewing. If you don't chew well, you don't digest well and it takes longer until the energy is in your system. And so for race day I would normally say the lion's share is always drinks and gel. I can tell you after a good career in endurance sports, you're not a big gel fan anymore. They have a tendency to kind of grow on you, hold on you. But anyway, it's the easiest way to have a high-density carbohydrate supply. As I said, logistics are a major factor. So if you're self-supported, whether it's in a training or in a race, carrying around water or driving around water is never a fast process. So make sure you get the right blend, how much solid food you have or how much water you carry. And be aware that we have two requirements. We have a fluid requirement and we have an energy requirement and they're not always in line, so it depends on the climate. And that's probably too individual to explain here, a one-for-all approach. But a simple and kind of broad range that works for most athletes is at a normal temperature, drinking 600 to 800 milliliters per hour. So that's a good fluid supply and the dosage of carbohydrates we've already addressed. So if you have the two things. And then, as I said, having at certain times solid food can kind of soothe down the entire system, makes sense. But I have athletes, they cope with everything and take just the easiest approach.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, you're right. And then we also have the gravel or mountain bike marathon scenario where a lot of cyclists use a hydro bladder which can come in handy especially during the first hour of the race when the race pace is high or when hitting the trails where you don't necessarily have the time to get energy bars out of your pockets or take your hands off the bars for drinks. You know then having a high calorie drink mix in the bladder is the easiest way and then when the pace levels off you can start eating bars, rice cakes and other things. Then you also have a marginal gain error advantage with a hydration bladder. And good news for all you gravel racers out there, including you, Dani. Next year, Castelli is introducing a pro-level aero jersey designed with a hydro 1.5 liter bladder pocket for when every second counts, as the bladder has shown to be slightly more aerodynamic versus not wearing one.
DANI HOFSTETTER
That's great news.
SOREN JENSEN
And that's also one of the reasons why UCI has banned the use of hydro bladders in road racing.
DANI HOFSTETTER
But mountain bike races and marathons, it's a given. And I'm working with two athletes in preparation for next year's Cape Epic. And because you never know whether the supply, like the personal team supply, works out in the bushes, we probably use hydro packs as well.
SOREN JENSEN
Right. I think at that point, later in the race, after maybe the first 90 minutes or more, then the race also typically switches to a moderate pace. And then you can probably also switch to moderate carbohydrate intake with maybe a bit higher electrolytes later in the day. What do you think about that strategy? Because we also need to be careful that they're balanced correctly. I mean, you're also then getting real food into your belly so that everything keeps on absorbing.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Yes, that's something you need to find out for your preference and also how you can cope with a consistent load or whether you need to periodize the intake. I try to keep the fueling strategy as simple as possible because if the whole race frenzy starts, you're kind of lost and you lose track of, oh, is the next hour now 80 grams or 120 grams? If you can rely on kind of food supply from a team car, as we have this in Pro Tour, then it's easy because then your director or sportive gives you just the right bottle and then the strategy is pretty much dialed and monitored. But the high athlete, the gravel athlete, they are relying on their minds and memories. So I try to keep it simple and stupid.
SOREN JENSEN
For those who are there, the best advice. Okay everyone, that's it for this week's episode. Tune in again next week where we will discuss how to fuel your body for long and cold winter training rides and indoor riding. So if you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to subscribe, give us a rating or review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts to help us be seen by other cyclists in the algorithm. And if you want to suggest a future podcast topic, just shoot us a line at podcast at castelli-cycling.com or hit us up on socials. I'll also drop Dennis' contact details and other important links from this episode in the show notes. in the show notes. Till then, take care everyone, ride safe and see you soon.
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